In this series from AHLA’s Early Career Professionals Council, health law professionals share their career paths, what they wish they had known as students, and what a typical day in their job looks like. In this episode, Rob Yates, Managing Consultant, Berkeley Research Group, speaks with Jennifer Michael, Member, Bass Berry & Sims PLC. Jennifer talks about her role as a health care regulatory lawyer and her focus on fraud and abuse and regulatory compliance, her path from accountant to lawyer and between government and private practice, and why it’s important to determine one’s own version of success.
Watch the conversation here.
To learn more about AHLA and the educational resources available to the health law community, visit americanhealthlaw.org.
In this series from AHLA’s Early Career Professionals Council, health law professionals share their career paths, what they wish they had known as students, and what a typical day in their job looks like. In this episode, Rob Yates, Managing Consultant, Berkeley Research Group, speaks with Jennifer Michael, Member, Bass Berry & Sims PLC. Jennifer talks about her role as a health care regulatory lawyer and her focus on fraud and abuse and regulatory compliance, her path from accountant to lawyer and between government and private practice, and why it’s important to determine one’s own version of success.
Watch the conversation here.
To learn more about AHLA and the educational resources available to the health law community, visit americanhealthlaw.org.
This episode of ala Speaking of Health Law is brought to you by ALA members and donors like you. For more information, visit American health law.org.
Speaker 2:Hello and welcome to A H L A speaking of Health Law podcast. I'm Rob Yates, and I'm a healthcare governance and regulatory compliance advisor at Berkeley Research Group. We are back today with the Health Law Career Journey series, which is brought to you by the Early Careers Professional Council or E C P C . Our goal here is to highlight the breadth of career paths in h a ALA's membership and encourage those who are just starting their careers in health law to explore all the different possibilities in this space. Today I'm excited to welcome Jennifer Michael from Bas Berry and Sims. Jennifer, welcome to the podcast.
Speaker 3:Hi, Rob. Thanks so much.
Speaker 2:So let's just jump right into it. Uh, you're a partner at , uh, the big law , big law firm here in dc . Uh , so what, what does a day, a day in your life look like?
Speaker 3:A day in my life? Well , um, I think like most lawyers , um, my days are rarely the same. Every day is kind of different. Um, I, I am a healthcare regulatory lawyer. My practice focuses on fraud and abuse and regulatory compliance. So I sometimes am jealous of my transactional and litigation colleagues , um, because, you know, at a law firm we have to bill our time. And as a regulatory lawyer, I'm constantly going from, you know, matter to matter. Um, my friend and I joke that we live and die by the point threes. Um, whereas my transactional and litigation colleagues often, you know, spend their entire day on one task. And so , um, their time entry is a lot easier. Um, and sometimes it's, it's challenging. You know, you build that house of cards in your mind when you're analyzing an arrangement. And , um, it's, it, it can be challenging to switch from matter to matter and, and have to like remember , um, what are sometimes detailed, you know, corporate structures or proposed arrangements and, and get back into the, to the fraud and abuse analysis there. But I do a lot of , um, front end compliance. So clients will reach out like, Hey, I've got an idea for an arrangement. Can you help me structure it and make sure I stay on the right side of the fraud and abuse laws? Or they've already implemented an arrangement and maybe a , a vendor or a client is asking them about it, and I'll help them analyze it. Um, sometimes talk with opposing counsel or counsel on the other side , um, about why we believe it's okay. And then , um, sometimes if the government comes knocking and asking questions, I will help , um, you know, with enforcement and , and investigations. So every day can be different.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Yeah. It's , uh, a common refrain in this, in this space, I think. Um, so I , I think it would be really helpful if you could break down kind of each step you took in your career path that you took to get here.
Speaker 3:Sure. Well , um, somewhat, I think non-traditional for a lawyer. Anyway, I graduated from college with an accounting degree, so I worked as a C P A for four years as an auditor at one of the big four. Back then it was the big eight. Um, that wasn't a great fit for me. No one's like, yay, the auditors are here. Right. So , um, so as I was, you know, considering my career path and my, my choice kind of regretting some of my decisions, I remembered that I had really loved the business law classes I had taken as an undergraduate and , uh, thought law school might be, might be fun. Um, that's the kind of the extent I, of the thought I put into it. I didn't have any lawyers in the family, didn't talk to any lawyers , um, watched them ally McBeal. So that was, that was helpful. Um, went to law school and , um, after my first year, I summered at a firm and that, that I , I liked that firm because they had a communications law practice. And when I was at the accounting firm, I was in the group that was called ice, which was Information Communications and Entertainment, which sounds like super glamorous , um, but really was just a bunch of telecommunications , um, companies outside of the beltway. So , um, you know, I thought, you know, I've been doing communications so we'll check out this communication law practice, like also not a good fit. Um, luckily this firm also had, you know, a number of healthcare lawyers and I, I did some work for them, and it was like the light bulb went off and I was like, this is where I should be . Um , and apparently it wasn't a red flag back then for someone to like change from being interested in communications law to health law. I think nowadays , um, it seems like, you know, graduates or even law students are, are expected to have an idea of what they wanna focus on earlier and earlier. But , um, luckily that wasn't the case for me. So I ended up going back to that same firm after my, my second year in law school and , uh, focusing exclusively on healthcare that time. And then went on to work for that firm after I graduated for a little over eight years. Um, at which point a former colleague who had gone into the government let me know of an opening at H H S O I G in their industry guidance branch, which very rarely had openings. So , um, that was a very exciting opportunity and went, got, got hired and , um, had the privilege of working there for almost nine years. I was , uh, started off as a line attorney. Um, most, most of my work there was on advisory opinions. You know, the industry guidance branch is the branch that , um, issues all kinds of guidance to the industry, including advisory opinions, special frauders, special advisory bulletins. It's also the branch that promulgated the new and modified , um, safe harbors for value-based arrangements. So did mostly advisory opinions. Um, worked on a couple special fraud alerts, which was fun. Um, and then was promoted to deputy chief. And then my last couple years there, I served as chief of that branch, and I started to get the itch, you know, try something new , um, and went back to private practice , um, was at another firm for a couple of years and then transitioned to Bass Berry where I've been for almost two years now.
Speaker 2:So with, with all of that experience in mind is, is there anything that you wish you could tell yourself going back in time to when you started your career?
Speaker 3:Um, well, you know, I'm a firm believer in the butterfly effect, so I don't think I would ever go back and like secretly tell myself to do something different or, or to not do something because, you know, then that the course, I've watched enough movies to know that, you know, that's not a good idea. Um, but for, you know, law students out there or young professionals , um, I think one , one important thing that they should think about is, is their definition of success. You know, I think we're told the for so long, you know, in high school you have to get really good grades and be on , you know, captain of the football team or the debate team or in the marching band or whatever, take the AP courses so that you get into a good college and then you, you know, get good grades in college so that you can go to the right law school. And every success is very clearly defined. Um, and then sometimes once you graduate , um, you know, if, especially if you go to a firm, you know, the path is, is pretty clear. And I think, you know, that that is certainly one definition of success becoming a partner at a big law firm, but everyone has their own individual definition of success. What's important to you? How do you wanna spend your time? Um, you know, do you want to be a triathlete and maybe, you know, work a little less? Or are you, you know, very , um, you know, career minded and want to get that brass ring in , in the law firm. So, you know, I think give that some thought and, and periodically check in with yourself to make sure you're on the right trajectory. And also, you know, sometimes your de your definition of success may change if, you know, if you , um, you know , meet someone and, and have a significant other or a spouse, your , your , your priorities may change or if you have kids or if you get divorced. So lots of things can change and, and they may change your priorities at work. Um, so, you know, I , I think that's one thing to be cognizant of. And also, of course, to, to build relationships and, and be curious. Um, don't be afraid to ask questions , um, or push back if you disagree with something. Um, res always respectfully, of course , but , um, I , and I think a , a big part of that, you know, work from home is, is so convenient and, and we all love it. It's great to be able to, to work in your jammies. Um, but I think, you know, it's also important to to be both physically present and, you know, mind and mindfully present , um, to build those relationships because they're gonna be important throughout your career.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. I think those are both really, really important points and something I wish I would've learned earlier, off earlier in my career. So that's, yeah, great advice.
Speaker 3:Yeah. And I think, you know, this E C P C part, you know, this is a, a great way to be involved. You know, Rob, you and I have spoken together on , uh, you know, a number of webinars and I think, you know, being curious and, and focusing on , um, something, you know, becoming an expert or a go-to person in something really can, can open a lot of opportunities for you as well.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. Well, thanks so much, Jennifer. I I'm sure our, our membership is going to get a , a lot out of this. Um, we really appreciate it.
Speaker 3:My pleasure. Thanks Rob.
Speaker 1:Thank you for listening. If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe to a H L A speaking of health law wherever you get your podcasts. To learn more about a HLA and the educational resources available to the health law community, visit American health law.org.