AHLA's Speaking of Health Law
AHLA's Speaking of Health Law
Health Law Career Journeys: Masha Goodman-Khan, Director, Compliance and Legal Operations, Vericel
In this series from AHLA’s Early Career Professionals Council, health law professionals share their career paths, what they wish they had known as students, and what a typical day in their job looks like. In this episode, Alé Dalton, Associate, Bradley Arant Boult Cummings LLP, speaks with Masha Goodman-Khan, Director, Compliance and Legal Operations, Vericel. Masha talks about how her career trajectory led to legal compliance, how her own work brings her into contact with colleagues and departments across her company, why she pursued a Master of Jurisprudence degree over a JD, and why perfection is the enemy of good.
Watch the conversation here.
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Speaker 2:Hey, welcome to Speaking of Health Law. Um , I'm Allie Dalton, and I'm an attorney at Bradley. I focus primarily on healthcare transactions and all things related to making those happen. These episodes are brought to you by the Early Career Professionals Counsel , or E C pc , and our goal is to showcase the breadth and variety of folks working in health law or health law adjacent spaces, and to encourage folks who are starting off in their career so that they can know that there are so many different options to being involved in the healthcare law space. Our guest today is Masha Goodman Khan . She's the director of Compliance and Legal Legal Operations at Variel . And I am particularly excited to showcase her story today because while Masha is a graduate of Seton Hall School of Law, instead of getting a jd, she received a Master's of Science and Jurisprudence, and she focused her studies in on pharmaceutical and medical devices as well as hospital and health policy. I am going to save all of the great details of her story for her to share with, with the folks listening today. Um, she also has a certificate in healthcare compliance law , and she has worked at different places , um, using all these skills. And so I'm very excited to have you on the podcast today. Masha , welcome.
Speaker 3:Thank you so much. I'm absolutely thrilled to be here.
Speaker 2:So , well please. Um, I would love for us to just talk a little bit about the path that you took to get to your current role today. Um, both from the perspective is you were sharing a little bit earlier, you previewed for us how , um, everything started from a temp job and now you are running things, so please
Speaker 3:<laugh> . Well , yes . So no , thank you. Um, so I have my undergraduate degree in biological sciences. Um, and I knew I always wanted to work in medicine and healthcare. That's pretty typical. I think that's a pretty standard , um, track for folks. Um, while I was figuring out what I wanted to do next after college, I, I wasn't a hundred percent sure, but understandably was working while I was trying to figure it out. And of course, lo and behold , um, I get an email , uh, from a temp agency and they said, listen, we just need somebody to cover for like four weeks. You know, somebody's going , getting married, doing something, I don't know, but , um, are you interested in this position? And I thought, well, you know, absolutely right. You know, you're trying to figure it out. And interestingly enough, the pharmaceutical industry was not ever an industry that was like in my periphery or even, you know, in the forefront of my mind. So when I got this temp offer, I thought, okay , like, you know, what's four or five weeks? No big deal. Um, and I walked in and very quickly, four or five weeks, they said , well, you know, are you willing to stay on for a few more weeks? Sure, absolutely. Yeah. And fairly quickly, this temporary position became a full-time employee , um, position. And it was specifically in under the commercial umbrella in something called Marketing Operations. At least that's what it was called at that organization. So it had an administrative like function for sure. Okay . Um, but I noticed very quickly that this job was constantly , um, working with a variety of different specialties. So you were never just working with other people in this marketing ops type function. It was across the gamut. And as much as I loved the healthcare industry, and I knew that I had always liked that, and I always liked the idea of something that was patient-centric. Um, I never realized that there was this like industry and let alone this one place, right? That was just a small representation of a much bigger entity like the pharmaceutical industry or biotech industry. Had I organically was drawn to just the process and structure of it all. And I realized that , um, in having , um, mentors in legal and in regulatory , um, they were, you know, like I had said these smart, fascinating people who were teaching me the difference between, you know, regulations and laws. What is federal, what is state, what's an industry guidance, what's the best practice? And while folks who traditionally would've been in this marketing ops role, I think either, you know, stay in that function, which is very understandable, there's a very, you know, prestigious and, and , um, fascinating career that you can have with this that's very important. Or they move organically into marketing market access, something of that nature. Um, that didn't really speak to me. And where I was, felt myself sort of headed was really more into the process and the structure that organically fell under legal compliance and some regulatory. And , um, I started to sort of creep on and take some compliance and legal, like responsibilities within the bounds of what was appropriate. Right? Of course. Um , and then realized like as I was progressing my career, I just made the switch over to compliance. And I absolutely , um, you know, I absolutely loved it. Um , I, and while I was, I was sort of in that compliance role, I realized then, you know what, I am not quite done. You know, again, you're always playing that game in your head. And of course, <laugh> , there's a lot of brave , there's a lot of , um, legal professionals who are not jds that's, it's become increasingly more common. You see chief compliance officers that , um, certainly don't have jds, some of them maybe didn't get an advanced degree and that's fine, right? That doesn't make them any less qualified and, and , and brilliant and very capable of leading , um, a great organization from a compliance perspective. Um, and so I thought that was really interesting. And I had worked with compliance professionals. Some of them had advanced degrees in finance, or they had an M P H , um, all of which, you know, was something that I was entertaining. And then it dawned on me, I said , I said, you know, I, I think I see the trajectory for myself and I would like, you know, to, to definitely stay in this role. Um, but I think I, I think I wanna go to law school and I think I, I wanna figure out what that looks like for me. Yeah. Um , and so that's sort of how that sort of transpired. I think that my favorite thing about my journey is one, it started kind of, you know, kind of on a fluke and a whim a little bit. Yeah . <laugh>
Speaker 2:A four week gig that turned into a career,
Speaker 3:<laugh> a short time gig, right? Um, but you get to meet , um, you know, you , you get to meet the , the most interesting and brilliant , um, uh, and dedicated individuals. And I just, you know, I , that part I just genuinely really loved. And also that what's true, what was true then is true now, which is I do not only work with legal and compliance professionals. I'm, I'm one of a , of a pretty small legal and compliance team, and we are always with our colleagues in other functions. So all of that laundry list of functions that I had mentioned earlier, those are the people that I spend most of my time with.
Speaker 2:I love for you to share a little bit that's like a great way to go into the next question I had for you, which is , um, sharing with us what a day in your life looks like , um, in your role. Because like you were mentioning, you sort of, you see the whole <laugh> , the whole scope from, you know, the legal side where you are dealing with lawyers day to day , but also the business folks and r and d and external facing folks , um, who might need your guidance. And I think that I, I would hazard a guess that you are the best translator when you have a lawyer in the room and a business development person, and you're sort of that bridge of like, I am a normal person, I'm not a lawyer. Um, but I can, I can understand what the lawyer is saying and let me make it easier for you to understand.
Speaker 3:Every day varies quite a bit. Mm-hmm . Um, it depends on what's happening. So , um, I think the, the general rule, like the, the , um, I think the general rule and compliance is, you know, the three key phrases, right? Or the three key words , which is, you know, detection, prevention, correction, not necessarily in order, but that's the general idea. Yeah. So that's sort of the infrastructure of what you're working with. And then depending on, you know, the size of the company that you work for, is it newer? Is it , has it gone through a major revolution? Does it just have organic growing pains, or is it big? Right. Um, you are always trying to figure out what your counterparts and your colleagues are doing, because again, it's very much a support function, legal and compliance. Um, so the more I'm integrated in what my colleagues are doing, the earlier I get brought onto projects that the marketing team might have or the medical team might have , um, the better off it is . So any, any one day can be filled with meetings like that, where they're going through, you know, a brainstorming or this is something that has already been in the works for a number of years, but as we know very well laws change, regulations change, what was okay five years ago may not be as okay today, hypothetically. Right. And so it is the opportunity to sort of speak with folks and figure out what is needed, what the goal is, and finding a way to always know that like it is our mutual job , right. To sort of keep the business moving. But I like to say, you know, playing the long game, right? If what we're doing today does not serve us as an organization many years from now, and there's an undue risk that, you know, we wanna take into consideration, should we be doing it right? And the answer, and, and that's not necessarily even where I am now. I think that's just true as a blanket statement, right? And so it's always trying to like strike the balance. I , um, somebody once teased me and said, they , they said, oh, you try and find like a really nice way of saying no <laugh> . Oh . Like , no , no , I promise. It's not that. I mean,
Speaker 2:But that is like a powerful skill to have. So
Speaker 3:I don't know that I'm good at it . I just, it's , I'm just trying <laugh> . Um, but it's not, it's rather than, you know, it's, it's hearing out, you know, sort of what the plan is. It's making , um, the things that folks don't understand, right. As it comes from like, you know, whether it's federal law, state, you know, applicable state laws, just internal policies, industry standards, palatable. Um, and that can happen in a myriad of ways . So any given day, I might be doing something under our monitoring and auditing program, right? Which means that I'm attending a speaker program or there's an advisory board. And if, you know, and they'll say, oh, well, you know, what do you, you just heard X, like, what do you think about that? And I'll say, all right, well, let's talk about it . And it's not, it's not as , um, mysterious and complex like, you know, everyone is such a, such a trained professional that even if you're not , if this isn't like your lens or your area of expertise, legal and compliance , um, I don't think I'm gonna say anything to you that's gonna sound like, you know, it's , it's coming outta left field, so mm-hmm . It could be monitoring and auditing , um, it could be compliance training, right? And just internal trainings. We have new hires that, that join. Um, just general rules of the road, you know, do , do people follow pharma code versus adv vmed ? You know, that's something that's, that's pretty common. What do the, what do the requirements say? Are we going to conferences and conventions? You know , there's things that, you know, that just sort of come up. Um, and so that, that is something that, that happens pretty frequently. Um, I'm just frequently in meetings with a lot of , um, my colleagues, again, in those varying , um, departments or collaborating with some to help support another department. It could be regulatory and legal and compliance. It could be market access, it could be, you know, marketing, sales, anybody.
Speaker 2:Um, so I would love to know when you were making your decision about whether you were going to go back to school and, you know, obviously you chose to get your masters there, like you mentioned mph, there are different options that other folks , um, decide to choose. Um, I'd be curious to know sort of when you made the decision to go to Seton Hall and, and do their program, if you ever considered a jd, or if you were thinking maybe some something else that, that might have ended up with you being a health lawyer , um mm-hmm . <affirmative> , and if so, like if you have a couple of, of pieces of advice for folks who might be in that same intersection where they love all the things that you mentioned and they love the law, and they're now realizing that there's a whole other option Sure . Where you don't have to be a lawyer.
Speaker 3:Yeah. Um, you know, I, I think in my particular case, I was really one , I had already been in compliance for some period of time, right? So it was something that I started to understand and it was an area of, of , um, the pharmaceutical industry. And, and that overlaps with the law, obviously to some degree , um, that I really liked. And so I, that was, I think that mystery was sort of solved for me a little bit. Um, and when I was looking at different programs, I did equally kind of look at JD programs and, and different, you know, MSJ programs. Sometimes they were msj , sometimes they were just like a master's in legal studies mm-hmm. <affirmative> . And what I found across the board, and again, this was just true for me , was the JD program looked great, but it was so overarching and I kind of already had a general idea of what I wanted, that I wasn't a hundred percent sure that that was gonna be the right fit. I think I could do it, but I didn't know absolutely like it was going to , if it was going to sort of do exactly what I was hoping to achieve. And then on the flip side, sometimes I would see some of these like masters of legal studies , um, programs, and they were, for the lack of a better term, like they didn't really have anything to do with anything. Like, they had like some like topics that I think overlap, but general rule, like I didn't really see Okay. Like, it seemed like it was absolutely fascinating. And thiss not to say that there's not a place for that, and I know quite a few absolutely. Individuals who, who got , um, their degrees that way. And it was great. Um, it's just that where I was in that particular time, it just didn't make sense. I would've probably leaned more if , if those were my two options, I would've leaned more towards the JD program. But Seton Hall , um, and specifically their law school, they actually attend quite a few , um, pharma conferences. And I realized that Seton Hall wasn't the only one, but it was the one that had stuck out to me of the places that I looked online. Because that first year, you're taking intro to law and you take Con Law and you take torts and you take business law and, you know, you learn about contracts, which is interestingly enough, I review agreements today. Right? Um, and so those were the sort of that first year, and then you sort of spider into your concentration depending on what it was. And I had a dual concentration. So there was, you know, the law of patient health and healthcare , it was absolutely fascinating and probably one of my favorite classes. Hipaa, of course, absolutely appropriate something that you need to take. Um, and several others. There was a lot of like , um, courses around like sponsorships and , um, clinical trials , sponsorships and things of that nature. Okay , cool. It was really great. Um, so I just think that depending on like what speaks to you and where you are in your life , um, you know, the masters ended up probably being one of the most , um, applicable and timely things that I've ever done. You know, I'm at, in my office doing sunshine reporting and getting, preparing for, you know, c m s, federal spend, sunshine reporting, and I'm also in a transparency law course . So like , it , it very much covers the dam
Speaker 2:Practical training.
Speaker 3:Very practical. Yeah. And so I , and I really enjoy it , and I do think that having a law degree, although not a jd , um, closed a lot of very necessary gaps for me. Um, not that it needs for everybody else, but for me, I found that very helpful. I knew that like my education wasn't over, and I knew I was still playing that game in my head, with whom would I like to switch places? Yeah . <laugh> . And I wanted to do something that I thought was going to be , um, applicable , uh, and make me that much better equipped , um, to be able to do my job. And, and I think that the M Ms J program did that.
Speaker 2:That's great. Thank you so much for sharing that. That is such helpful background, especially when you differentiate kind of your different options. And also within the s s uh, MSJ programs , um, you, you know, they're not all the same. So I think it's a good reminder of that. So just one last question , uh, before we let you go. Um, so if you could switch places, <laugh>
Speaker 3:Yeah .
Speaker 2:With your younger self mm-hmm . <affirmative> , um, when you're starting off in your career, or maybe even when you're at that junction of trying to decide what was next , um, whether it was school or something else , um, what would you tell yourself? What would you, what do you think would be the best piece of advice for younger you?
Speaker 3:Um, probably, you know, a again, I , it's a fun phrase, but it , it's, I think it's really true. Don't let you know perfect be the enemy of good. You know, when you're going through school, whether you're, where you're just trying to figure it out, like sometimes in a lot of instances, the details matter, right? I'm very, I'm naturally very detail-oriented. And so , uh, there's a lot of the , the details are always something that come up in compliance, but when you're going through school, when you're trying to figure out what you wanna do next, you know, that's not those, those, I think that's like the smaller ranae , like I was like obsessed with like blue book citations and making sure that they were done properly. Like, okay , maybe that's okay . But in the grand scheme of things, like it's really not what, what matters. Like, did you, do , you know, do you feel that you had a good, you know, understanding of what you've covered? Um, do you, you know , do you get it? Do you not get it? You know ? And also like, just being okay to ask for help and , um, and, you know, if you don't understand something, find out somebody, you know, find , seek out someone who does, because I do think that that is , um, really, really important. And I will preface that if my family hears me answer this question, they'll be like, that's tremendous advice. Where was this X number of years ago ? <laugh> be like, yes, <laugh> , you know , then we'll give you a pass. Exactly.
Speaker 2:But you're sharing with your, you're sharing with your former self, so you know Exactly. Now you're on the other side.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I , yeah, absolutely. But I, I think all of those things are true, like truly pro , we're not striking, we're not seeking perfection. We're seeking for, you know, expanding our knowledge base and , um, doing, doing the best we can with what we have. Because I think at any time we can look back on something that we've done or didn't do and say, Ugh , you know, if only it had been X, y, or Z. Um, and I just don't think that, I think life's too short, and I just don't think that's important. Um, but what is important is, you know , sort of keeping, you know, maintaining your momentum depending on what you wanna get done. Um, and also learning from all the people around you, whether it's exactly what you wanna do, or maybe they did something and you're like, all right , note to self, maybe that's not something I wanna emulate. There's, there's knowledge in all of it. Um, and, and I, and, and so I just think that like, find mentors, keep those people, you know, in your life. And , um, yeah, you never know how it unfolds. And I'm very grateful and very, very lucky that it , it unfolded the way that it did for me. But yeah.
Speaker 2:And we are too, because we get to share your story now .
Speaker 3:Kinda weird .
Speaker 2:<laugh> , thank you so much for your time. Thank you . If folks are interested in learning more about the work that you're doing, is LinkedIn the best place to connect with you ?
Speaker 3:Absolutely . Yeah.
Speaker 2:Well, thank you so much again. It was so great to share your story and we look forward to keeping up with your journey and what , you know. Yes. The next thing that you do,
Speaker 3:<laugh> , I would love that. Thank you so much.
Speaker 2:All right . Have a great day. Thank
Speaker 3:You. You too.
Speaker 4:Thank
Speaker 1:You for listening. If you enjoy this episode, be sure to subscribe to a H L A speaking of health law wherever you get your podcasts. To learn more about ALA and the educational resources available to the health law community, visit American health law.org.