In this series from AHLA’s Early Career Professionals Council, health law professionals share their career paths, what they wish they had known as students, and what a typical day in their job looks like. In this episode, Alé Dalton, Associate, Bradley Arant Boult Cummings LLP, speaks with Katie Tarr, Shareholder, LBMC. Katie talks about her experience as a non-lawyer in a “health law adjacent” field (health care valuation), the importance of identifying strong companies and leaders, her role in AHLA’s Women’s Leadership Council, why resource/affinity groups are good tools for companies, and how to engage with potential mentors.
Watch the conversation here.
To learn more about AHLA and the educational resources available to the health law community, visit americanhealthlaw.org.
In this series from AHLA’s Early Career Professionals Council, health law professionals share their career paths, what they wish they had known as students, and what a typical day in their job looks like. In this episode, Alé Dalton, Associate, Bradley Arant Boult Cummings LLP, speaks with Katie Tarr, Shareholder, LBMC. Katie talks about her experience as a non-lawyer in a “health law adjacent” field (health care valuation), the importance of identifying strong companies and leaders, her role in AHLA’s Women’s Leadership Council, why resource/affinity groups are good tools for companies, and how to engage with potential mentors.
Watch the conversation here.
To learn more about AHLA and the educational resources available to the health law community, visit americanhealthlaw.org.
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Speaker 2:This episode of AHLA speaking of health law is brought to you by AHLA members and donors like you. For more information, visit american health law.org.
Speaker 3:Hey, everyone. Welcome to AHLA . Speaking of Health Law podcast. I'm Ally Dalton. I'm an attorney Bradley. I work primarily on healthcare transactions and all things related to making them happen. This episode is brought to you by the Early Career Professionals Council , the ECPC, and our goal is to showcase the breadth and depth of career paths that HLA members have, and encourage the folks who are just starting their careers to explore different areas of healthcare. Our guest today is Katie Tar , who is a shareholder at LBMC, and we are so excited to have her on today because she is in healthcare and health law adjacent , but she is not a lawyer. So we love having our non-lawyer guests on the podcast. So welcome to the podcast, Katie .
Speaker 4:Thank you. I'm very excited to be here.
Speaker 3:Thanks. Well, I think it'd be really helpful for folks to maybe get to know a little bit about you , um, how you ended up in your role. What does shareholder at LBMC mean and maybe what does your day-to-day look like?
Speaker 4:Sure. Yeah. So I started at L-B-M-C-A decade ago. Actually, November is kind of my decade mark. Yeah . As a senior analyst. Um, and have worked the way through the career ladder here , um, and became a shareholder about four years ago in , uh, may of 2019. So my first year as a shareholder was 19 to 20. Um, I was also pregnant that whole first year, and then had a child completed my first year and , and covid hit . So it was an exciting time .
Speaker 3:So nothing happened that year .
Speaker 4:Nothing happened at all MBA , um, that year as well . So yes , very time . Um , I have been in compensation evaluation the entire time , so I'm our litigation evaluation practice. We have folks that help assist attorneys with litigation matters in both healthcare and , and non-healthcare segments. And then we also do business valuation around healthcare of acquisitions or ASCs . There's folks that specialize in that. I and my team specialize in compensation valuation . So typically regulatory matters around start anti kickback compliance , um, doing a lot of kind of fun, exciting work in the , the VBE E space with the value-based exception. While FMVs not required, I'm working with a lot of systems that wanna still have an FMV done because it's a new law and they're not certain, you know, what a compliant arrangement looks like, right ? And so they're going ahead and having us work on that. So that's something fun that I've been doing, I would say has just kind of picked up this past year. Um , but I got to LBMC through a few connections, moved to Nashville, had no idea what I would do here, and then learned it's the healthcare capital of acute care <laugh> in the country with LifePoint, ardent , HCA , uh, a lot of the large health systems all based here in Nashville, CHS. Um, so could be pretty much the greatest place for me to move to. I moved here because of my husband, who's a professor at Belmont, which is a university here in town, but turned out that Nashville is the best place for me. LVMC has been wonderful. Um, and I now lead a team here of compensation valuation professionals. And as a shareholder, I'd say about 50% of my time is working with clients across the country. I think I've served most, nearly all 50 states at this point, except for Hawaii. I dunno why, but if anyone is listening,
Speaker 3:Anyone's listening for health
Speaker 4:System , I'd love to help you with compensation , um, in Hawaii. Uh , and then I , um, about a fourth of my time is firm leadership. So I lead our women's steering committee and our women's initiative, and then I lead our healthcare , uh, segment. I'm part of a core team of about five individuals from across the firm that leads our healthcare segment. And then with the other quarter of my time, I would do, say I do things like this. So that's serving with AHLA , serving with other professional organizations , um, being out in the market, doing thought leadership or subject matter expertise, you know, different items. So I'm on HLA involved in a volunteer. I am the past president of the Tennessee Chapter of HFMA, which is Healthcare Financial Management Association, and then I'm the Board of Leadership Healthcare, which is a program of the Nashville Healthcare Council here in Nashville.
Speaker 3:Yeah. So you're, you don't do much at all. <laugh>. Yeah . Thank you for sharing that. I think on sort of to your story, did you know you were gonna be exactly what you're today when you were in undergrad?
Speaker 4:Yeah . An 18 year old would ,
Speaker 3:You would be doing <laugh> ?
Speaker 4:Yes. I , as an 18 year old, I absolutely dreamed of being a health law compensation professional. Um, yes, no, I, I wanted to be , uh, a today show anchor , um, when I went to school and I was a broadcast journalism major. And then I changed to , um, economics and math through advice of a professor when I was in school based on my strengths and my interests. And then , um, I got out of school in 2009 in the great recession and bad, bad time to be looking for a job, bad time to be looking for the next opportunity. Um, but my husband was offered a funded PhD through Ohio State, so we needed to stay in Columbus. And I started looking at jobs and met someone at Ohio Health, which is the largest health system in Ohio, based in Columbus, and took a job there. I just really needed a job, <laugh> . Um , I needed an income. My husband was in graduate school and I took the first job. Um, but I will say that I, through that, working hard, learning a lot, loved healthcare , uh, loved the mission of serving people and patients when I worked at the health system. And , um, it is complex. There's always something to learn, which I love about healthcare. There I was doing more finance, acquisitions, budgeting, long-term , financial planning. Um, and then kind of my last year at Ohio Health, I started managing physician compensation and contracting , um, and sitting on the compensation committee with legal operations and finance and fell into that specific niche through just, there was a need for someone to solve a problem, and I stepped in.
Speaker 3:That's great. I think that that is such, it's wonderful to hear from folks who are, you know, sort of far out from from that, those moments that I'm sure felt like, is anyone ever gonna employ me? Will I'd be able to pay my bills? Um , we get a lot of questions from folks who are sort of like, how do I get to, you know, where you are today? Um, if I maybe, you know, don't know what I'm gonna , where I'm gonna work, or, my first job isn't the dream job, or it is in the job I imagined. Um, and for folks to see where you are today, I think it's, it's really encouraging for sure. Um, what is it like to be in health law without being a lawyer? Clearly you've done really well for yourself. Um, what is it like to work with lawyers? Have you thought about going to law school? Is that at all a possibility?
Speaker 4:Oh, I definitely thought about going to law school at , at one point. Um, I think it was one of the few career paths, but I was considering. Um, but I think for me now, an accounting firm , uh, attorneys and, and health law is the most similar. Law firms are the most similar to accounting firms. So I feel like my law professionals are the people who get me the most, get my work. Um, I'm <laugh> of my closest colleagues and friends. I would say peer mentors are attorneys in healthcare , um, who can understand my clients and the clients I work with and the problems I solve, but aren't directly in my day-to-day work or at my company. So we have fun and good perspective. Um, at HLA, you know, they've, they've changed the name over time to American health law professionals to be more inclusive and including compliance and folks like myself in evaluation and different individuals that aren't lawyers. Um, sometimes it can be challenging to be at things and not be a lawyer because I don't get into the nitty gritty of the law or I do not read proposed policy for fun. Um, you know, I kind of explain to people, I wait until the policy is in place, and then how do you operationalize that? While a lot of attorneys might deal with, well, you know, what if this policy comes to play? Or what if this change happens, I'm more dealing with it after it's occurred and how do we operationalize it? Um, but I love the perspective that health lawyers bring , and I a lot of the same clients, a lot of the same challenges. Just looking at it from a different perspective. I'm just always saying, this is not legal advice. <laugh> , while I read contracts every day , alre , I probably read 10 contracts a day. I can only give you very high level , um, advice on contract terms that's for your , your legal team to help you with. I am really looking at the financial terms, and I think it's a good symmetry because I think health lawyers would say the same thing. Like, I am not thinking a
Speaker 3:Hundred percent . I'm not a evaluator. It's like the disclaimer at the top of any kind of conversation about valuation or comp or anything. Um, we just are always saying, you know, get an FMB, like, we need to talk to the evaluator. So that's great to hear that. Um, how those two, for folks who might not be as familiar, how those two kind of align Mm-Hmm . <affirmative> , what do you wish you would've known when you were a student? Whether it is you wish you maybe would've taken some classes that prepare you in a certain way, or opportunities, externships, internships and community involvement . Anything that you think would've been helpful in helping prepare you for the role that you have today?
Speaker 4:So, not knowing that I wanted to go to healthcare, I, I didn't do anything healthcare related . So if, you know, you wanna get into healthcare, get involved , um, get involved in HLA, get involved , um, in HFMA, get involved in their student seats in all of these organizations that are looking to support students as they grow their career. So if I had known, I would've done something like that. Um, but with my husband and professor at Belmont, I interact with students at least weekly, if not daily. Yeah . Um, we also live near the university, so we see students when we're out walking, we're at Guitar Center on Sunday, talk to a songwriting major. You know, it happens all the time. And the one thing I've noticed about students is they're really interested in doing something they're super passionate about. That's very fulfilling and that's wonderful. But my advice is that may not be your first job, that you may not get there right away. And my advice to students typically, and what I wish I had known at the time, I was kind of forced into it with the recession, but um, is really just focus on is this a good company? Does this have a good brand, a good reputation? If I ask people about this company, what do they say about it? And then, is this a good leader that I've gotta work for through for now leaders? Can I go? So that can be a challenge if that you start and then that person leaves, yes , <laugh> . But I think looking at the job based on who are you gonna work for, are they a good mentor? Are they interested in teaching and investing in you and helping you? Um, are you , can you learn a lot from them? And then, is the company a strong company that's growing and has a good reputation? I found I can do pretty much anything if those two things are true. If I'm working for a good leader that caress about me and investing in me and I'm learning and a company that's growing and it has a strong brand, I'll, I can do anything and any company and enjoy it . Um , so that's kind my advice to students is , is look for those two things. And then over time you might, you might find you love something you didn't expect, or you learn something and become an expert in something you didn't expect, like compensation, valuation , um, but looking more for the leader in the company first. And then over time maybe you'll be able to find that exact role that gives you, you know , great specific purpose and that you're super excited about. And that comes over time. It's not necessarily always that first day, that first job.
Speaker 3:Yeah. No , I think that that's really helpful to remind folks. Again, I do think that that's one of the questions we get a lot of, like, how do I get my dream job? And I think sometimes, you know, some of us kind of walk into it. I've been with the firm since I started and I love it and it's been a great experience , um, since my first summer of law school. But that's really not the reality for a lot of folks, especially nowadays with kind of the mobility in the marketplace. So I think it's, it's always helpful to, to encourage folks that way. And I think it's, it's good advice as well as far as their involvement. I would love for you to share with folks a little bit about the work that you do in HLA. I know you also mentioned you're really involved in your community , um, both sort of of what it might look like for someone. Um, you know, you shared the organization is broader than just healthcare lawyers, but there are a lot of us , um, your involvement with WLC and kind of what that looks like and what it might look like for a student to get involved. Um, what is it like to be involved in HLA? What kind of work do you do?
Speaker 4:Yeah , so I am currently the vice chair of member engagement for the Women's Leadership Council. So the ECPC that Ally is involved in the Women's Leadership Council, those two councils within AHLA . And we are focused on advancing women and health law . So that looks like all sorts of individuals from all backgrounds. Um, we've got some students and then we've got some seasoned career professionals. And my focus on member engagement is really to, to be a welcome in place for students and for individuals that are looking to get more connected with AHLA . So we are doing that in a couple ways. We have networking events , um, where you can come and you can meet the council and hear from a speaker. Those happen on a regular basis and are posted on the website. Happy to also send those out to anyone. Um, and then we also do a variety of, of connection articles where you can learn more about the council and those, we're always looking for volunteers to help write those articles. So if you're passionate about something and a topic that advances women in health law , we'd love to have you write and contribute to our publications. Um, and then the other way that we're doing things is in person . So as we go to conferences , um, in particular looking at transactions as well as physicians in hospitals and , um, next year's fundamentals, having a representative from the council lead , uh, an in-person engagement or opportunity networking event , um, so that people can meet each other in person . I got involved in the Women's Leadership Council during covid virtually because it was something I could do to still meet new people from my home with my baby at the time, you know, with me. And , um, I got to meet a ton of people through that. Got to know the council really well, got to stay abreast of health law across the country while being, you know, in one place , uh, and not traveling. And I did that consistently and got to know everybody. You know, people, some people have said they've seen my son grow up through the virtual zooms of the Women's Leadership Council. 'cause he kept getting bigger each month since we would have them. But that's was my introduction. 2020, I'd been involved in HLA for a long time, but hadn't served in a volunteer role. Um, was really getting involved in the council that year and it meant so much to me and I learned , got so much from the individuals that I worked with. I wanted to be a part of the council. That's
Speaker 3:Great. And I'm glad you mentioned that too , I think sometimes about your son and bringing him, obviously I know we were at home back in 2020, but I do think sometimes folks kind of wonder like, how can you do it all? And like, how do you balance it? And I think sometimes the answer is, baby joins you on <laugh> on the Zoom and everyone's better off for it. Um, I would also love, I know you mentioned a little bit about your resource group involvement and how you lead the women's initiative at your firm. Um, a lot of folks, especially kind of who are , are coming up and going through law school or graduate school where they have a , they're involved in affinity groups or some kind of resource groups , um, kind of expect that or want that in a workplace. Can you speak a to a little bit about both, you know, the efforts that you're leading, but also any advice that you have for folks who either want to lead in those organizations where they are or maybe if their organization doesn't have a resource group, how they can you kind of rally and and and get some buy-in in those efforts?
Speaker 4:Yeah, absolutely. So like I said, I lead the women's initiative resource group. We also have , um, about six other resource groups. We have a young professionals , um, we have a people of color. We have a LGBTQ plus group. We have one or two other groups that are escaping my mind right now , um, of individuals. Those are some of the best , best places to get opportunities to lead. 'cause you can jump in and volunteer and lead and get visibility and practice. I would say practice leading through those with a group of people that are supporting you and care about you. If you don't have any resource groups at your company, you know, I think the easiest thing to do is just ask. And most of the time companies would be more than happy to, but they don't have the person or the personnel to kick it off. And so if you wanna volunteer and do it, I think most companies would be all behind it. Um, I think the key is emphasize that it's from a business case, it is focused on recruiting and retaining. So it is a key recruitment tool to say that you have these offerings and then it's a key opportunity to retain professionals because they feel more connected. They have peers, they have , um, you know, people they can go to if they have concerns or questions or issues and they feel more engaged and involved in the workplace personally in addition to professionally through the resource groups. And I know it's been important to me at different times throughout my career as an , as a young professional, as a new mom , um, and as a leader now wanting to be able to mentor and, and kind of pour back into our next generation of leaders.
Speaker 3:That's great. Thank you. I love that. That's very helpful. And then one last question before we go. I would love to know what tips or what you would say to someone. One of the , another question that we get a lot is, how do I get a mentor? It sounds like, you know, you are , um, I don't know , quite seasoned, but you're a little bit farther ahead than us. And , um, you're in leadership positions inside your firm and also in the organizations that you're involved in. And sometimes it can be daunting to maybe, you know, you're very nice, but you know, how can someone come and say like, Katie , will you be my mentor? What does it even look like? Mm-Hmm , <affirmative> . And what would you say to folks, I know that you have mentioned several times the power of having a mentor and having those relationships. Um, how do we do that?
Speaker 4:So for those that are seasoned that might be listening to this, I just encourage you to, to speak it every opportunity you get. So I was actually in front of our emerging leaders group this morning at LBMC, and every time I get a chance to be in front of that group, I say schedule time with me, schedule coffee, schedule lunch, my calendar is open it , if I'm free, it'll show I'm free. Just go ahead and schedule something and request a meeting. I'm open book . So communicating how you wanna be asked and also that you're open to, to meeting with people because people, even though I feel like I say it all the time, sometimes I'll still get people I didn't feel like I could really just put something on your calendar, <laugh> . It's like I've told you that five times. So you know, you've gotta repeat it and there's always new people. Mm-Hmm . <affirmative> . So be repeating yourself if you're one of those that that is available to people. And then for the people that are looking for a mentor, you know, do not be afraid to ask. And when you ask, maybe start with a smaller ask, like a 30 minutes, like, Hey, come on , I get some feedback on something for 30 minutes. I think also having a why, like why you're meeting is very key. Like, I wanna talk to you about this and getting that first initial conversation and some feedback. And then at that point, if it goes well, you can say, are you open to meeting me with me on a more regular basis to talk about things like this? Or setting a cadence? You know, I was just talking with someone who's had a mentor for a long time and she said, feels kind of stale. We've kind of gone through all the topics. What do I do now? And I was like, well, if you really valued that person's opinion, maybe think about just meeting twice a year, maybe meet around annual review time , you know, prepping or post whatever you know is important to you thinking about or busy season or whatever it might be. Thinking about key times in your year that you could use an extra boost of advice or feedback in asking for scheduling time around that could be a good idea too. But, you know, asking, I think having a clear and specific ask, maybe starting with a shorter timeframe, and this is kind of why I wanna talk to you. Um, it's much easier for someone to , to jump in and say, yes, absolutely. I'll , I'll help you. And then from there, organically leading to could we do this on a more regular basis, I have, you know, a list of attendings I'd love to go through over the next year.
Speaker 3:That's great. Thank you so much for your time today and for all your wisdom and all the tips. I feel like I was taking notes, <laugh> and we'll circle back with you on some things that you shared. If folks wanna follow your connect with you, is LinkedIn the best place to, to kind of follow what you're, what you're up to? Wonder . Well, thank you so much again, Katie . We really appreciate it. And
Speaker 4:Thank you Allie . Thanks for having me.
Speaker 3:Yeah, we'll talk to you soon. Thanks so much .
Speaker 2:Thank you for listening. If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe to AHLA speaking of health law wherever you get your podcasts. To learn more about AHLA and the educational resources available to the health law community, visit American health law.org.