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AHLA's Speaking of Health Law
Strategies for Inclusive, Collaborative, and Successful Legal Teams
What makes a legal team inclusive, collaborative, and successful? Lori Oliver, Shareholder, Polsinelli, leads a discussion on team management and support, navigating different workforce cultural expectations, managing relationships with clients who have law degrees, the role of mentorship, and keeping hybrid teams engaged. Lori’s panel includes Margaret Peyton, Clinical Business and Regulatory Affairs Officer and Associate Vice President, UW Medicine, Miriam Chambliss, Vice President and General Counsel, CommonSpirit Health, and Melanie Curtice, General Counsel, 98point6.
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Speaker 2:This episode of A H L A speaking of health law is brought to you by A H L A members and donors like you. For more information, visit American health law.org.
Speaker 3:Welcome everyone to ALA's podcast. We are thrilled to be with you today, and we'll be focusing our conversation on strategies for inclusive, collaborative, and successful teams. We're gonna touch on equity, diversity, inclusion , um, allyship, how we mentor and advance in the legal profession , um, issue management between in-house and outside counsel, and a number of other topics. So, I'm Lori Oliver . I'm a lawyer with , uh, Polselli Law Firm in Seattle, Washington. And my practice focuses on transactional and other types of matters. Um, we've also asked all our panelists to describe as part of their introduction a little bit about their journey as a lawyer. So what I would add is that, you know, I was not the kid who ever dreamed of being a lawyer in my family. Uh, just going to college was big dream. So when I think about my journey as a lawyer through our profession and through life, it's really been about , um, opportunity and the many helping hands that I've had along the way to , um, propel me along the path that I've taken. So, Margaret, would you like to introduce yourself?
Speaker 4:Sure. I'm Margaret Peyton . I'm the clinical business and regulatory Affairs officer for UW Medicine. Um, that title tells you nothing really about what I do. Um, I was , uh, I've been a lawyer since 1988 and was a lawyer until probably two years ago, maybe, when my practice shifted primarily into being administration within , um, UW Medicine. So , uh, unlike Lori , I think I was born saying, I like to talk. I wanna be a lawyer. Um, and I've enjoyed it. It's, it's been a, a really wonderful career for me. I too look at , um, not going to the best of schools and not having the traditional opportunities, but really having the , um, good fortune to have a lot of good mentors and good examples along the way. So I really am here by the grace of others , uh, in many ways, and I remind myself of that frequently.
Speaker 3:Thanks, Margaret. Miriam, would you like to introduce yourself ?
Speaker 5:Hello, everyone. I am Miriam Chambliss , the Vice President and General counsel for the Pacific Northwest Division of Common Spirit Health, covering Washington and Oregon. And I, too am one of those who did not initially pursue a path of law. I was in the mindset of becoming a doctor until I did my first internship and realized this is definitely not the life for me . So I was encouraged by another attorney to think about law, which I did. Uh , I never would've imagined that coming from a historic cold black college and university, both for undergrad and , um, law school, that I would be here today . But it has been a great adventure of becoming a healthcare attorney.
Speaker 3:Great. Thanks, Miriam and Melanie.
Speaker 6:Hi, everybody. Um, Melanie Curtis. I am , uh, general Counsel of 98.6 Technologies, which is a software as a service company that provides software primarily to , um, providers. And , um, never dreamed of being a general counsel <laugh>. Didn't think that was ever something that was in my future. Um, when I started down this journey, and like the other panelists , um, I graduated in law school in 1998. I was 36 years old, so I'm a really old general counsel <laugh> . I , um, did their sort of traditional path after law school and worked in law firms for , uh, 22 years, and then moved over , um, to work with a client. At that time, it was 98.6 and have been here for the last , um, you know , almost four years , uh, providing support , um, on various matters. Uh , my practice was primarily in employee benefits and health benefits. So this may not seem like a natural path. It certainly wasn't. But like the other panelists, I had a lot of help and support and mentoring along the way, and landed in something that I never would've imagined. And it's been really interesting and fun to be on the other side, if you will.
Speaker 3:Terrific . Thanks, Melanie. Um, as we were preparing for the podcast, we were reflecting collectively that we have combined experience between all of us of being in-house counsel, outside counsel . We worked in state and federal legislative work, both as lawyers and non-lawyers. We've done , uh, public sector work through , um, uh, being assistant attorney generals. Um, we have , uh, some have served on government appointed commissions, and we have compliance officers experience amongst us as well as , uh, being business clients. So , um, with that wide variety of professional practice in terms of how we've used our law degrees, we wanted to reflect a little bit on if there are one or two guiding principles that have emerged , uh, that you apply in your practice on a regular basis. Um, so let's, how about we do reverse order? Melanie, how would you like to start on this one?
Speaker 6:Oh, boy. Um, sure. So I would say that , um, the two guiding principles are , um, some somewhat related, and the, the first is to be inquisitive. And , uh, that's really, well, I think it's important in life, but it's important in practice, most certainly. Whether your client is just one client or many clients , um, ask, ask a lot of questions and not assume that I know the answers . Many times I don't. I need help and support to get those answers. And the other is to, to listen. And it's hard 'cause I like to talk to. I mean, you know, that's part of our training. Some of it comes, you know, naturally, but , um, it's, and sometimes it's, you know, like putting a piece of duct tape over my mouth and just listening to make sure that I hear as much of the story as someone wants to tell. And then follow up with, I was going to say the inquisition <laugh>, but that might actually , um, be true. Um, so those are the kind , and I think especially on teams too, it's really important when you have people with all different kinds of experience levels. Um, they might not know the questions to ask, and, and it's important to help them to see that, you know, someone who's at a senior position doesn't have all the answers and provides them with the tools and the safety to ask the questions they need to, they need to ask. So I'll stop there.
Speaker 3:Mm-hmm. <affirmative> , Miriam, anything you wanna build on Melanie's comments or add to individually?
Speaker 5:Well, you know, like Melanie said, listening is a key thing. And, and for me too, it's a challenge sometimes, being the youngest child in a family, I asked a lot of questions growing up, why, why, why, why, why? And my grandparents would often remind me that I'm not listening to the answer. So as an attorney, I have had that thought pattern with me from my early childhood. So I, I'm always refocusing myself, even with my team, am I being inclusive in hearing what they are saying related to this issue or this project that we may be working on? So listening it is, it's really key to meeting not only the client's needs, but also the needs of your team and making sure you're including all the stakeholders. But also one thing that I feel is important to me is not always waiting for them to come to me, but being proactive. When you see the need, go ahead and step up and offer suggestions or recommendations, or even help to meet the need . So that has been one of my guiding principles too, to be proactive in reaching out to help others clients, team members in this, in their professional practice, in their professional projects. Fabulous.
Speaker 4:Margaret? Well, Melanie and Miriam , um, stole a lot of my material <laugh> . Um, I agree that it is both a challenge and , um, and key that you listen and actually hear what your clients are telling you and what your colleagues are telling you. And for my money, for, from my perspective, I come from a family of interrupters. There's a magnet on my refrigerator set that says, cutting you off is my love language. Um, <laugh> . So, and it's well understood, and my sister has one as well. Um, so I really try to listen and, and look at people, you know, really meet 'em where they are and see how they're feeling about things when they're coming to you with something hard or some questions. I can tell you that when clients, I, I was in-house in some form or another within UW Medicine for a long time, and when people come to you, it's not because they're telling you this thing is going great. They're coming to you to say , uh, oh , I think I did something wrong, or We found a problem. And inevitably you have people who made a mistake and or a misjudgment or didn't know what they were doing. Um, what I have found is that, first of all, everybody shows their humanity when they come forward and has to tell you, I made a mistake. Um, I think that it's humbling for folks, particularly physicians and other , uh, leaders, big organizations to come forward and admit they made a mistake. So I try to be really empathetic. I lead with, this is not the worst thing I've ever heard. I can see how this happened. Um, and just listening, kind of meet them halfway. Not everybody wants a lot of touchy-feely, but I do think they wanna make sure that you've heard them, and while they're talking, you're not judging them . You're accepting, come on, let's, let me pull alongside and we'll fix this together. You know, it's, it really is attacking things as a team rather than I can be a service provider to you. I've only ever really been in-house or thought of myself as in-house, and I've been in public service the whole time. So for me, building relationships has been key to be able to get to things quickly and have people have enough faith that I'm here to help. I'm not gonna judge or, you know, make you feel stupid or , uh, you know, rat you out. There's, there are ways of addressing things and meeting your obligation to address a problem thoroughly by reporting it up or, you know, making a disclosure that retain the respect for the people who made the mistake. And so I think if you lead with empathy there , um, in my experience, I've been well served by that Laurie . Perfect .
Speaker 3:<laugh> . Well , uh, Margaret and I share a similar history, including we have , uh, worked together within UW Medicine. So I would just echo not just the empathy, but , um, ownership. So in one of my transitions from lawyer to client , uh, feedback I got from my now non-lawyer colleagues , uh, was related to , um, uh, that ownership feeling like, here's a problem. And now you're not just a lawyer advising on the problem and displaying all the traits that Margaret just described, but it is your problem <laugh> and to, to sound and act as though you now own that problem. And you are part of the solution, not just advising on it. So, you know, for those , uh, who are listening who've gone and back and forth, or are in client roles, that was certainly one of the , uh, learning trends , um, trendlines I had as I made that transition. So we're gonna shift a little bit to some workplace and team management topics, and maybe helpful , uh, for those listening to know that , um, your panelists and myself reflect , um, gen X and baby boomers. Uh, so that may ground some of our , uh, discussion for you to understand that. And none of us are admitting who is what. Um, but we wanted to talk about strategies for leading a multi-generational team and , uh, thoughts that you have encountered as either being part of such a team or being the leader of such a team , uh, given , um, uh, the place that you are in your career. And , uh, Margaret, let's kick off with you.
Speaker 4:Okay. So when I, when I think about how to build a really good team, I think don't be afraid to hire people who you believe are smarter than you and better than you. I had an experience once where I was commenting to a colleague at a talk, somebody was talking about some sub topic that they were an expert on, and I said, we ought to hire that person, get 'em into our office. And my colleague said, oh, so many people don't wanna hire somebody who is smarter than them , which struck me as odd. You wanna surround yourself, but with people that are smarter than you. And you wanna be able to tell 'em , you know, I'm, I'm just, 'cause I'm maybe older than you, doesn't mean I'm smarter or better. Um, one other principle that I have, or, or thing that I do and has been successful for me is that not only do I tell people, you can make a mistake. Everybody makes mistakes. That's how you learn. I tell people, let me tell you about my mistakes. And I have a , you know, a little file folder of them , um, at least one. And , um, you know, you can bring out mistakes that align with things that are relevant to that individual. And just say, God , I just, it was just a mistake. I , I didn't know what I was doing. Or I said, I knew something and I really didn't. Or I made a mistake or an error in judgment. And, you know, I find that both with your teammates, but also your colleagues and your clients saying that you made a mistake and talking about it openly doesn't diminish the trust they have in you. It makes you more human. I realize that if you're in private practice, you know, you don't wanna lead a new client by saying, God, I make a ton of mistakes. But you know, you can find ways to let them know that you're human. Um, and certainly in the environments that I've been in where you're in-house, there are plenty of times when you can make yourself more accessible and have stronger relationships by telling people, I've done that too. And so I have routinely told the people in my office about current mistakes. This is what I did yesterday , um, or mistakes that happened 20 years ago. And, you know, I still remember this. This is how I learned. If you have to hit your head on that same low hanging beam, okay, but let me tell you about it, and maybe you'll find another low hanging beam of your own. So I have found be successful and humanizing it, it seems to bring us all to a level.
Speaker 3:And, and do you think, has it made any difference what generation you're , um, sharing the story with or talking to
Speaker 4:<laugh>? People my age all have mistakes, and we will all talk about them with one another. Um, because we all know it's baloney . If you, if you act like you've never made a mistake , um, with younger folks, I think they are afraid to admit mistakes. And sometimes they're afraid to say, I don't know. And they can be loaded with an act of self-confidence, an appearance of self-confidence, but you should assume they're no different than you were at that age. And, you know, you say to yourself, I can't believe somebody's taking my legal advice. And you know, it , I think it's really helpful to tell people who are younger, oh my gosh, I bumped into so many low hanging beams by getting here, and it, and it was okay. That's how I learned. And I am somebody who's not afraid to say, I don't know. There's a lot of stuff in this world. I don't know. I don't don't even know the stuff. I don't even know. And it, it gives younger folks, I think, some room to make mistakes and to say, I don't know, as a legitimate answer, it doesn't mean you're a bad associate or you're a bad lawyer. Uh, and you don't have to look it up on Google while I'm talking to you, you know, have some time to learn about it and then come back. In fact, get off your cell phone while I'm talking to you, thus displaying I am a baby boomer
Speaker 3:<laugh> . Um , Miriam, how about , uh,
Speaker 5:Well, you know, when I came into my role, I had the tremendous privilege of having to build an entire legal team <laugh> to support me in this huge role. And one of the things that I often considered as I was looking through candidates is what a succession planning look like for me, because I don't want this role to ever have such a large gap. And when you're thinking about that, you're thinking multi-generational. Could the youngest attorney hired to the team one day make it to the level of being general counsel? And in order to know that you have to ask a lot of questions, generationally, the older we are, we tend to have more dialogue, whereas our younger counterparts tend to do more texting or emoji life. So in order to draw them out, I would try to find conversation pieces that I knew may be attractive to them, areas of the law that may have issues that are more inclined to be discussed by generations that are younger than I am. So I made a concerted effort to do that during the interview process, so that I made sure that I was including everyone, reaching everyone across the various generations that could assist me in building a a successful team. And one thing that I learned from one of my HR counterparts, I received the resume and I told the HR counterpart, I've called this person twice and they haven't called me back. She looked at me and said, Miriam , I think you should just email them . So just knowing the mode of communication that could reach a variety of different candidates, whether it's, you know, age, diversity, other circumstances, helps with determining , uh, helped me to determine if I was really making a concerted effort to have that multi-generational team and to have individuals that could bring inclusive thought to the group that I was attempting to build. And, and today successfully have been able to add attorneys to my team that are across a , a number of generations. So I think that has really contributed to, to making a strong team and, and making sure they know that regardless of if you're the youngest or the oldest, everyone's input is just as important.
Speaker 3:Great . Melanie, any anything you'd like to add? I think you've been, you've both built teams and then , uh, through , uh, sales of lines of business had to reduce teams. So anything you wanna share?
Speaker 6:I would, just listening to , uh, um, everybody talk a little bit here, I , um, one of the things that came, come , came to mind is that when I moved from the, a law firm and a big law firm to a startup, I went through culture shock. I mean, sort of complete culture shock. I'd never heard of Slack. And a lot of life in a startup happens on Slack, which for a lawyer that's terrifying, but it does. And so , um, that's something that I had to get used to as a way of communicating with both team members and with others in the company. And I also was so surprised about the level of , uh, sharing of information on our Slack channels. I mean, we have Slack channels like dogs, dogs, dogs, and everybody puts things up about their dogs, cats , cats , cats, and people put things up about their cats. We have the over the rainbow for the group, and I am part of that group and was very surprised at the level of sharing and information that was coming through, you know , on the slack. And it freaked me out in the be in the beginning because it's not where I came from or how I grew up. I mean, we talk about, you know, this the concept of, I mean, I've heard this, but of, of masks the one you wear at work, the one you wear with friends and family, the one you don't show anybody, but you write . I was, I always kept my, a lot of my personal life personal and private, and believed that that's the way that it should be, because that was sort of how I was , um, raised in my family. And also, you know, in the law firm. Um, and law firms have changed a lot, I think, over the years and including when I was there. So this, this was a big, big thing for me in trying to find a balance where I felt comfortable. And also , um, the balance where sometimes there's an overshare <laugh> and how and how to, you know, deal with, with that. And , um, I don't know, Lori , I, this is a little bit off, off topic of what you mentioned, but I was just thinking about my own experience with, with this sort of cultural difference, and it really is a generational thing mm-hmm . <affirmative> . And so , um, I am now posting <laugh> in these slack channels and communicate with a lot of my colleagues and , and team , um, through Slack. And I have less emails, but a lot more stuff that maybe isn't privileged <laugh> that's , that's in the chat, have to say that. So I work on that regularly. Anyway, I'll stop there.
Speaker 3:No, no, I think that it, it, it is a great point because I think that , um, uh, I don't know what they teach in law school around this concept of , um, professionalism. And I don't mean that in the , uh, rules of professional conduct , uh, sense of professionalism, but you know, your dress, your demeanor, what you share, et cetera , those standards are , um, shifting and changing. And it can be disconcerting at times when someone quote overs shares , um, which now no longer seems to have a set definition of what that is. And I particularly think about that , um, since we all work in healthcare, it's a very collaborative area. We're worried about, you know, mental health as lawyers, we're spending time worrying about the delivery of mental health services by our clients. And folks are just a lot more candid about , um, uh, ways that they need support and help. And I think that's good, but it sort of runs contrary to , uh, a , a very narrow definition of what's professional behavior. So I , I think it's a really important topic to, to analyze and think about in a multi-generational team , uh, including when that oversharing makes others on the team uncomfortable. And , uh, I don't know if you all have a way of , uh, navigating that when you, when it happens on your team, because I imagine it does, but let me pause there and see if anyone wants to , uh, jump in there. Maybe Miriam .
Speaker 5:Well, you know, Lori , that's a good point because coming out of the pandemic, I find that the need for connection still exists. Even though we see stories of, of how younger generations are more tied to their social media communities or to their phones and chats, when the opportunity arises to make in-person connections, I find that no matter what generation you are, they, they thrive on that. So it has been some challenges for sure, <laugh> coming out of the pandemic and people making those connections and wanting that supportive workplace. Sometimes you do have to pull a person to the side and make the distinction that yes, we are supportive workplace, but also consider the culture and the environment of those around you so that you can learn to read the room and know if people's expressions or body language or just sometimes getting up and leaving the area may be an indication that we are oversharing. And I think this will continue to be an ongoing challenge because we have introduced something in our culture through social media that allows so much free and open expression. And we are in an industry where privacy, client confidentiality, those things are just as important. And the more you live those in your day-to-day life, it is probably easier to live them with the client and with your work banks . So I think it's an area that we're gonna have to see a lot of education on so that generationally we can grow to that place of privacy, not that we're suppressing feelings, we want everyone to express and feel included in the discussion, but to make sure that we are aware of how we're impacting others around us on the team as well.
Speaker 4:You know, I think , um, one of the features of working in healthcare, if you're thinking of the traditional healthcare where I started working when I was in my gosh, late twenties, early thirties , um, you have a lot of people who are older and , um, Miriam, you were spot on in my experience to read the room and look around. I can remember , um, talking with folks about, you know, be careful about how you dress and you know, you wanna have a, a professional presentation. Um, I remember when I got into the academic medical center, somebody saying, you know, that doctor wears a suit all the time and it's not serving him with his other doctors. He needs to look a little rumbled. And, you know, I, so I think, you know, there's so much of what goes on that is your nonverbal presentation and you know, if people are coming to you for help, you need to look accessible, but you wanna look respectful, right? And I think it's coming at it from both ends. I think the folks I mentor who are younger as they come up, you wanna help them see that they need to accommodate a sense of professionalism from a prior generation. And then we need to shift our view too that, you know, that there are a lot of things that my mother would've raised me to do that I just don't do anymore . And I'm sure she's rolling over in her grave, probably the interrupting. But , um, you know, I, I just think you have to be a little fluid with language and you have to be a little fluid with where culture is going, but we're still in a pretty conservative profession .
Speaker 3:Thanks, Margaret. Um, and Miriam and all , I , we're gonna shift our focus slightly , um, just because with our various backgrounds , uh, we've all spent time as a client or in a non-lawyer role and work with lawyers, so vice versa. Um, so , uh, and for those of you currently practicing law, I'm sure you have clients who have law degrees. And so, you know, have you developed , uh, tips through your career or strategies to deal with , uh, client who's very sophisticated on the law, but they are no longer the one who should be giving legal advice?
Speaker 5:Well, you know, I'll take this one, Lori , because I think actually you do a very good job at that for us. When, when you're serving us in this role, one of the things that I appreciate and, and I have actually implemented myself, is the listening. We go back to the listening piece of, again, of hearing the client out and letting them express exactly what they feel their issue is. There may be some areas that you don't even have to broach if your client is legally sophisticated, it may take some of the normal basic work that you have to do out of the equation because they are familiar with, with those basic concepts of the law . So I appreciate that when I am dealing with others who are also attorneys. So I try to implement that when I'm dealing, not just with others who are legally sophisticated lawyers, but also operational clients who have a lot of knowledge about the law and have been doing this healthcare work for a very long time. I try not to take away from what they already know by just running in dumping the law on them . I I really do try to take the time to listen and hear them out first.
Speaker 3:It's a great point. Um, and I think about the role clarity , uh, having at times felt like I was probably the best client a lawyer could have, and I was probably the worst client a lawyer could have. Uh, and someone once told me that. So I know actually <laugh>, I have amongst my repertoire, those who are like, you are a challenging client. Um, so I think, you know, role clarity of , uh, if you're in the client hat, it's great that you're sophisticated on these legal issues, but to remember, you're not the, you're not the lawyer giving the legal advice and really be thinking about, you know, in an interface with your colleagues. When do you bring the lawyer to the table and when do you paraphrase what your lawyer advised? And, and when you're the lawyer, I think it's being sure you're respectful of the skillset and the expertise that someone brings. Um, so , uh, and, and that can be tricky. And when you've got multiple mul , you know, a complex problem with multiple different operational expertises coming to bear , uh, let's talk about mentoring because we all acknowledged in some form in our introductions the role mentoring has had in our , uh, professional development. Um, and , uh, so we wanna just kind of have a broad ranging discussion about , um, you know, how we have benefited from mentoring, how we mentor others, how we use that to promote diversity, equity, inclusion, or allyship. Melanie, why don't you kick us off?
Speaker 6:So I think the biggest thing for me , um, in terms of being mentored, and it wasn't necessarily, you know, with the people I directly work with, worked with, it was people in this healthcare, lawyers and healthcare community generally. And it's, it was about creating opportunities and , um, listening to where my interests were and, you know, looking for some things that would align with those interests. And I have tried to carry that forward and doing the same. Um , and, and do the same. I mean, I've worked with both in, in-house and outside counsel, very experienced , um, longtime lawyers who actually were looking to maybe get involved in or do something a little bit different that maybe they wanted a , a different career path and looking really hard with them for the opportunities that would allow them to maybe look at doing something not totally out of healthcare. 'cause once you get totally out of healthcare, I honestly don't know what any of us would do because it's , uh, there's so much to do here, but there's lots of avenues. And , um, and that would maybe be contacting someone on their behalf that would maybe be finding assignments or finding lawyers or others who could make those assignments. And, you know , uh, on the, on the, on the business side, some lawyers have had interest in going into business. So giving them the opportunity to maybe manage, manage a project, be involved in a project that wasn't necessarily a pure legal project, I think has been helpful for some of those things. And so I, this idea of creating and listening for opportunities, but that also, you know, presupposes that, that I would know what they are. And the only way that you can know what those interests might be is if you have relationships with the people who are looking for them.
Speaker 3:Yeah. Excellent point. Um, Margaret, do you wanna add anything?
Speaker 4:One thing , um, that I've been trying to work in a little bit here, Melanie, you referenced, I I think we all having, you know, we're licensed in Washington and we are in a really remarkable association with other healthcare lawyers in Washington. I find this, frankly, a national thing that healthcare lawyers are tremendously supportive of one another. And I don't know if it's because of the complexity of the work that we do or really wanting to help others come up in their career the same way you were helped up. Um, I think that we're lucky to be in healthcare and be in a community where people do look out for opportunities for others. I can think of times when I've suggested people that I met last year, you know, at a conference where they interviewed for a position that they didn't take in my office, but I know somebody who needs a good lawyer, and this woman is a fantastic lawyer. You should talk to her. You know, I, I think getting out there and affirmatively making those connections for people is really important. And I find it to be oddly, pretty common in the healthcare bar. I don't know if it's because we work with, you know, people who exercise compassion for a living, or that we're in a profession that exercises compassion for a living. But I, I feel really blessed to have been in a career where I'm surrounded by others who want to help.
Speaker 3:Yeah. Yeah. Miriam,
Speaker 5:You know, I always remember that I'm just a little girl who grew up in Mississippi, <laugh> , who did a lot of hard work, but who had a lot of people who supported her to get where she is today. And when I think of mentoring other lawyers, or just even other young people thinking about a career in law, I think about how I can create opportunities for them to reach their goals. Like others created opportunities for me. And so that naturally takes away some of the bias or stereotypes we may have created in our minds because we're thinking about the next opportunity for someone else. So that is, that's kind of the goal that I keep in mind. Where can I go to or who can I talk to to help this person to reach their goals? If I can't do it within my own department, there has to be a connection somewhere else. So I keep that at the forefront.
Speaker 3:That is so well said, Miriam. I, I often think , uh, I would insert for me little girl from Alaska, <laugh> not the South, but , um, there are , uh, you know, hidden barriers at times to , uh, activities that individuals would like to engage in. And so , um, being proactive in learning about what is it someone wants to do and how to help 'em , uh, is, is so critical and or has been in my life experience that it's something that I wanna always pay forward and give back to. And , um, and particularly, you know, being curious about others because I haven't walked in their shoes. I think I'm more conscious of that the last few years is not making assumptions and asking the question, asking them to tell me their story in their words. So , um, Melanie, anything , uh, that comes to mind here? We've, we've talked before about these topics.
Speaker 6:I'll just say plus one to all of that.
Speaker 3:Excellent. Okay. So now, now one last , uh, quote hard topic is , uh, we all have hybrid. Um, we're either part of a hybrid team, we're leading a hybrid team. Uh, you know, anything you're doing with your team to help maintain , uh, connection or , uh, working effectively as teams or any tips that you would share?
Speaker 5:Well, you know, we have attempted and we're doing a pretty good job at it of at least making one day a week a connection day, whether it's in a office space or we have lunch together, or in some way be present physically if possible. But even when we can't be in person together, sometimes we just take time on Zoom to make connections other than work. So I get to know you section on Zoom to, to kind of give people a break away from just legal talk to things, areas of life that they may be finding enjoyment in , like vacation or what the kids are doing in sports this summer, so that they remain engaged on other areas. And it doesn't become just a mundane day-to-day grind of work. I think hybrid is definitely here to stay, so we have to adjust to, to this lifestyle forever. But there are ways that we can research to promote still keeping those connections and building a supportive and inclusive team environment, even though we're virtual most of the time.
Speaker 3:Melanie, I think your team's almost all virtual. Any any thoughts?
Speaker 6:They, they are. We have , um, I mean, during the pandemic we hired like many other companies all over the, all over the country and let folks know that this was a remote , um, job and that it would be a remote job even after , um, people came back to the office. 'cause we did even assume then that people would eventually come back to the office. And what is true is that the majority of the company is remote. And we do have a few people going in occasionally, and we have some meetings occasionally that are in person , but there is always one or two people who are remote. And so it , um, it takes effort. And Miriam talked about some of the things that , um, that she does with her team. And we do the same thing, the same things here. I mean, we have regular meetings and it is all on, you know, pretty much the agenda is work, but we've, you know, added other discussion topics. And we used to be, frankly, during the pandemic better about it than, than we are right now. It's almost like, oh, the pandemic's over, so we're just gonna focus on work and not this con connectivity or connection piece. And it takes a conscious effort to do it. And , um, frankly, I don't necessarily have all the good ideas, but team members have good ideas about how to, to do that. And , um, you know, recently a team member put on the , um, discussion topic, you know, we're working through a lot of hard , hard things right now and what does everybody on the team do to cope with some of those hard things? And just that, I don't know, 15 minute conversation with everybody talking about those kinds of things went, you know, went a a long way. And it's frankly, keeping top of mind those kinds of activities , uh, because I agree hybrid work is here to stay and , um, that sort of connection is important. And also having it not always be about work is , um, is, is critical. So I guess this goes back to, to dogs , dogs , dogs, <laugh> in our Slack channel in photos with dogs, <laugh> and what the dog , dogs , dogs are doing. <laugh> mm-hmm.
Speaker 5:<affirmative> .
Speaker 3:Yeah. And I'm struck by because I, I joined Pulse and LA during the pandemic, so we were in Seattle remote, but the reality is my practice, you know, especially my accountable care work and some of the , um, equity related work I do is across the country. So you're always in a hybrid environment with some of those clients and colleagues. And so , um, I think the , the emphasis on , we didn't call it that, right? That was just, you know, you're doing a, doing a remote phone call, but it, it is a reality. I think that sometimes your entire company is spread across the country. It's, and you work with teams that are not just local and you don't really have a chance to be in person with them very often. So , um, it's the , the emphasis on this and how we're working with , um, hybrid teams is great. Uh, but it's probably something if we think about long enough, we've always had , um, depending on the industry and the activities. So , um, any last minute , uh, thoughts that you wanna share that I haven't , uh, uh, provided space for?
Speaker 5:Well , Laurie , I think this has been great. And one of the things that I appreciate about our course that we've discussed here today is we can see it's a challenge, but there are ways we can meet the challenge of building successful teams, regardless of if we're hybrid, if we have generational gaps, and it just takes us staying focused on each other and not the eye , but the we and it, it only makes healthcare stronger.
Speaker 3:Melanie, any last words?
Speaker 6:No, I, I, I agree. Focusing on the we and it's been , um, great to do this with all of you. And Lori , thank you for , um, leading us here through the conversation.
Speaker 3:Thank , thank all of you , um, Melanie, Curtis, Mari , Miriam Chalis , and Margaret Peyton. Thank you so much for , uh, taking time for this. And thank you to our audience for , uh, tuning in and listening to our thoughts on these topics.
Speaker 1:Thank
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