Leverage LinkedIn and Other Social Media to Amplify Your Thought Leadership

John Saran, Partner, Holland & Knight LLP, and Michael Yalon, National Director, Physician & Provider Recruiting, U.S. Navy, share their social media journeys and how they have used LinkedIn and other platforms to create their own unique online presence, grow their professional profile, and gain followers. They discuss how they got started and grew into their “voice,” the types of content they post and how they make content decisions, strategies for boosting engagement, and the unique value that LinkedIn provides.

Watch this episode: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sOjd__vq_q0

Essential Legal Updates, Now in Audio

AHLA's popular Health Law Daily email newsletter is now a daily podcast, exclusively for AHLA Comprehensive members. Get all your health law news from the major media outlets on this podcast! To subscribe and add this private podcast feed to your podcast app, go to americanhealthlaw.org/dailypodcast.

Stay At the Forefront of Health Legal Education

Learn more about AHLA and the educational resources available to the health law community at https://www.americanhealthlaw.org/. 

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:04

This episode of AHLA Speaking of Health Law is brought to you by AHLA members and donors like you. For more information, visit americanhealthlaw.org.

SPEAKER_02 0:17

All right, welcome to this latest AHLA podcast entitled Leverage Linkin, LinkedIn and Other Social Media to Amplify Your Thought Leadership. My name is John Saran. I'm a partner at Holland and Night, where I focus on healthcare transactions and regulatory matters. I'm also a military reservist and I'm also a girl dad. I'll let uh I'm joined here by uh Michael Yolone and I'll let him introduce himself.

SPEAKER_01 0:44

Hey, yeah, thanks for having me. And uh, you know, good morning, good afternoon, good evening, everybody, depending on what time you're uh watching this. So, yeah, I've been in the Navy for 18 years. Um, currently active duty. Uh, I lead physician and provider recruitment for the entire Navy and the Marine Corps because the Navy provides both the medical capacity for both of those branches. Also a girl dad and currently here locally in Nashville.

SPEAKER_02 1:08

Yeah, and uh I didn't mention what branch uh Coast Guard for me, uh Coast Guard Reserve and the JAG, and obviously bonded with you actually on LinkedIn, uh just you know, being a member of the Sea Services, and uh you're very much out there uh with recruitment and then just otherwise and all your other uh things that you do. Uh and so I thought you would be the perfect host uh uh you know for this topic and subject matter expert. Um, and I think the just for most folks out there uh in the industry, um, you know, I'm not seeing, I mean, I think there are a few uh, I would say, lawyers uh in the healthcare space that are out there constantly putting out content. But I think the purpose of this uh podcast is to kind of explain why you know you should really consider uh putting yourself out there, whether it's you know, LinkedIn or other social media platforms, doing podcasts like this, uh, and kind of hear our stories and um and how you might uh be able to leverage some of that uh into starting your own um uh sort of you know social media presence and and to be able to kind of get your message out there. So just to start off, I mean, Michael, uh can you tell us a little bit sort of your current what you're doing now on LinkedIn and other social media platforms and uh uh and and sort of how you balance the different roles with the Navy and otherwise?

SPEAKER_01 2:29

Sure. Yeah, so I you know I I'd say probably about um in August of last year, I um I went all in on LinkedIn. I was everywhere else. I still dabble a little bit in Reddit because I think there's a lot of value there because of the privacy piece, and people can be frank and have those candid conversations when they don't want to dox themselves or have like a forward-facing presence. But um, besides that, um like I said, I went all in on LinkedIn. And and the reason why is because there's no other platform where you can walk into the boardroom at a billion-dollar company, you can walk into a startup panel, you can walk into a recruiting platform. There's nowhere you can do that all within like an hour, two, six hour period or or within a day. Um, and on LinkedIn, you're able to do that. And you can talk to anybody from a billion-dollar CEO to somebody starting off in college or high school, you know, if you're doing mentorship. And so you can you can be everywhere at once um with all at the same time. And I just think that's so powerful. And it's free, right? That's that's very expensive in other you know, platforms and realms and niches. And so um, I think that's a really good starting point.

SPEAKER_02 3:37

And you mentioned, you know, you have that sort of direct access. I mean, if right, if you sent an email, well, first it'd be hard to find most emails, right, of of certain uh stakeholders. And then maybe you do find their email finally, you send an email, and then most likely it's gonna go nowhere, right? Or you might call in after you find a number, and you know, doing that cold call can sometimes be very difficult, right? Um, but to your point, if you connect with those individuals, you are essentially right, either you can use the direct messages. I'd be curious to hear so your success using direct messages, but even just once you've connected, every single time you post, you are at the top of their feed. And it's like a low impact, it's a low uh cost uh encounter, right? Or engagement with them. They can decide to interact or not. Um, it's anonymous, right? You don't know necessarily know if they interacted with your post, but you're you know that your stuff is getting out there because you hear about it, right? You might you might engage with that person later on down the line and they say, Oh, I saw this post or this post. And you're like, Well, I didn't see you like it, but they clearly read it. They, you know, they you clearly had that encounter. Um, well, and then do you for your content, are you, you know, is it 100% sort of focused on your your day job, an active TV job, or do you sort of stagger it up a little bit, you know, certain days this content, or certain times of day, certain content, or how have you kind of balanced all the different things that you do and with with your content?

SPEAKER_01 5:10

Yeah, no, great question. Um, and so I like to think of it in pillars. So there's four pillars that I kind of operate in, you know, personal, professional, humor, and then random. Um, and the reason I say that is because you never know within the humor, random, or personal aspect of who that's going to connect with on a professional level, that maybe your professional content might not. Like you and I, we're both girl dads, we're both in the service, but professionally we're polar opposite spectrums. And we wouldn't have never, we rather we would have never, you know, came into contact with each other if it wasn't for the things polar opposite of our professional, like, you know, uh mutual things. And so I'd say the professional world starts in the morning. And so I post like professional content first thing in the morning, whether it's Navy medicine, you know, the Navy, the GI Bill, something that has to do with the professional world in which I'm in. Um, and then usually in the evening is something personal, something funny, something random, something I thought about that I saw I was like, man, that would be really cool to share. Um, whether it's value added or hey, people are gonna laugh or whatever the case is, a selfie with a couple taglines. Um and it's really important because, you know, like you mentioned, people will see things. And so people do business uh with people they trust. And so, how do you build trust with someone that you've never met, that you never talked to? Well, you post content and you make sure that you know you niche down to whatever it is for you, but also uh niche out, be random, be funny. And so over time, that person will see your face, they'll see your content, they'll see your name. Um, and so at some point, whether it's 30 days, five days, one day, or six months, and you go to ask for something, uh you'll have a it'll be more of a soft connection or a soft ask than entirely cold, as if they never met you before. Um, and be and before you and I met the other day for breakfast, I felt like I knew you for a long period of time and we've never met. And so it's this very special like psychology back thing of you know, how many touch points before a physical, actual, in real life touch point. And so I think it's so valuable to be able to do that.

SPEAKER_02 7:17

And I think what we're seeing, right, the folks that are being true to their personality, I think are resonating more with the community there, just based on just using LinkedIn as an example. There might be other social media uh interfaces where you know they're you it might be a little bit different. But because I feel like, especially if you're right a prof if you're a profession where it's highly technical, like lawyer, doctor, you know, engineer, whatever, you might have when you go to the speak about what you're doing, you might use legalese or you might try to really infuse a scientific, you know, hardcore scientific terminology into it, but that doesn't necessarily resonate. And I think the ability, right, to say things in a simple and clear manner, and and then it widens the audience too. Uh, and you'll actually engage with you'll you'll have better engagement overall. Uh, and I think, and and people will also view you as a real person and not just sort of like a robotic scripted, you know, sort of like your uh, you know, the the sort of stereotype for like let's say corporate type personalities. Um now obviously those those personalities do exist right out there in LinkedIn, right? And I think everyone's kind of has their own persona uh of what they're trying to uh what they're trying to uh you know put out there, which by the way, I actually did have, I think I was telling you about this, I did have Chat GPT. I asked them, you know, review, or it may not be ChatGPT, it may have been a different tool, but I asked uh AI to look at all of my posts and look at my bio and articles and everything else and say, like, tell me what persona John Saran is trying to put out to the world. And it was shockingly accurate. And I think I and what I tell all lawyers, like, you need to do this because if the message that your external, you know, your your external engagement is is giving, it doesn't align with what you think that you're that is that is happening. Uh you should probably uh make some adjustments. But um, and just kind of go into what I do. So uh, you know, I mentioned right, so Halloween night reserve, um reserve, you know, Jag, and then Girl Dead. I try to do my professional posts um Monday through Friday, and then the reserve, which right, you know, weekend uh uh you know, drills and all that, and then you know, girl dead, because like right, my weekends are are are generally you know taken up with just like yours with you know kid activities and uh you know and all that. So I try to do like the reserve and and the kids uh related posts on the weekends and then professional during the week. And I've just looked at sort of just in the last year, uh, you know, what were the what were the highest number of impressions? And the highest post that I got was actually a post about me going to Costco. It's totally random. You know, I I actually thought it was a throwaway post because like I had taken, I had taken the photo, I because I thought it was funny. And then, you know, I had it, I came up on a weekend, I was like, I don't have anything to post today, so I'll just post this. And it it like, you know, and I had all kinds of people engaging with it. I had like see to your point, CEOs of companies, and then you know, folks from the military network, and you know, just other folks from my personal life all like engaged on it because it resonated as like a real uh as a real thing. Um, I'd be curious as to you know what if you found the same with with you know with some of your uh posts.

SPEAKER_01 10:59

Yeah, no, it's funny you say that. So like in the content creation world, there's just like funny, not saying, but commonly repeated thing, like, you know, you'll put hours and hours into long form content, an article, and you know, maybe a thousand, ten thousand people will view it or whatever the case is, right? A lower number to whatever you reach is. Then you post a picture of a Costco thing or whatever. For me recently, um, where was it? Uh, not Rhode Island, um Maine. There's a bunch of cities in Maine that um are the same names as different countries around the world. And I was like, hey, you can do a world tour uh without leaving Maine or whatever. And there was like 275,000 people that viewed it, and it was just it went viral. And again, it you know, I thought it was funny. It resonated with me on a personal like level with my humor, very corny, very dry. It's just how I get down. Um, and it apparently it resonated with a lot more people too. And I think I saw it on Facebook and I was like, hey, credit to this Facebook group. I might have had 45 seconds into building it. Whereas, you know, I put some really good stuff together in long periods of time, making sure you know it's it's kosher in regards to the content and it matches all the things, crickets or or you know, a very small group of people. And so, yes, it's it's hilarious um that it happens like that, and it's always going to be that way because we're human at the end of the day, and uh we try to be so polished that sometimes we kind of like lose ourselves within conversations or emails or you know, content creation. And in the world of AI, um you know it's not who can it's well, it's two things rather, but who is truly themselves, like you said when you meet in person, who actually matches, um, especially on LinkedIn, right? Because and we could probably talk about this uh separately as well, but the platform was was initially built for text, um, you know, short and long form. And so you can't really tell. You can get an idea like for personality between different words and like commonalities, but you can't really understand tone and passion, and you just you you can't, right? You can't really feel it through reading. It's like if you're a book reader, you know, you kind of uh you you place yourself in that person's shoes, like how you would, you know, read it or how you would feel. And so um I think it's very important to to have a wide range of the types of content, um, you know, funny and the the pillars I talk about, but but specifically like, you know, post a video, uh, you know, post a two-minute video, post a 30-second video, you know, every 500,000 uh new followers, like, hey, say, you know, hey, what's up, everybody? You know, Michael Yulone here, bloody bloody, and kind of just give a quick intro so that they say, hey, this guy's real. He's not a goofball. Yeah, he is a little bit of a goofball, but he's also professional and he handles business and he's a human. Um and again, it just goes back to building trust. Um, and then when you meet them, you're like, Man, I saw that guy, heard his voice, it's the same as today. And it just kind of comes full circle, like uh, you know, with a snap of a finger. Um, and it helps you build social capital too. Like, you know, when it's time to come cashing in that check. If you don't, you know, it's like if you got no money in the bank, you can't, you know, you can't make a withdrawal. And so um yeah, I'm super passionate. We could we could talk about this for the next 12 hours.

SPEAKER_02 13:57

Um yeah, well, and just to give uh you know, folks a sense of the reach. I mean, I'm just checking right now, and as of today, you've got 14,560 followers. That's incredible. Um, and you constantly are you know engaging with thousands of people across the country on a daily basis, right? So there is it is, and to your point, there is really no other platform that allows you to do that. Um, and you obviously, you know, as part of that, right? I mean, you're you're constantly trying to make new connections, right? And building those networks so that not, you know, because not everyone might follow you, right? So you want to you're and so how much how much of like how much time do you spend to you spend a day sort of building your network and you know trying to to broaden that reach?

SPEAKER_01 14:52

Um specifically to the growth piece of it. I mean, it happens naturally 24 hours a day, seven days a week passively. Um, but like on the offensive, uh, you know, I max out I max out the hundred connection requests a week very easily because there's just so much cool stuff out there. Um, you'll see so many new pieces of content, you're like, man, that's really cool. Connect with that guy or gal. Um and you can put a message in there or not, it really depends. Some people don't like the messaging because they feel like it's a pitch coming and they won't even read it. Um, and some people prefer a message to understand who they're connecting with. But I would say a lot of folks, especially new um maybe not necessarily new people coming to LinkedIn, but folks that may have created one a while ago and are kind of coming back because it's now becoming a thing. You've got to follow before you can have a following. And so I follow five to ten new people every single day. Um, because once you follow them, you'll see what they have to offer, what they're putting out content-wise, professionally, personally, whether they're a startup or whether they're a partner or whatever the case is. Um, and I think that's really good for me because I engage with their content like via uh whether it's a short, hey, I love this, this is super cool, or like, you know, it's something more complex within the field that I'm in, and it'll be a very thought out, like longer response. Um, uh, you know, kind of like the thought leadership piece, you know, where I failed miserably uh within what I built with the Navy and the physician provider recruiting team. And so, you know, I think uh the folks with the best thought leadership are just intimately knowledgeable because they've been doing it either for a long period of time or they were like in this very uh serious pain period of like just experience all the negatives and the positive, trying to grow. Um so I think that's a really good place to uh be able to engage and interact, provide feedback, uh receive feedback. But at the end of the day, uh you know, give, give, give, give, give, then take. Give 10 times more than you take um in all regards, you know, with feedback, with uh requesting people with following, with engagement, with uh, you know, just everything, just in life, frankly. Um, it's no, it's no different. You know, if you if you treat it like you treat life, you'll be successful because you know, especially, you know, the it's a blue ocean right now.

SPEAKER_02 17:04

Yeah, paying it for it is certainly helpful. I mean, you've certainly helped me uh just in the short time that I've you know come to know you. Um, I'll tell you, so for me, like I I shifted to uh your daily LinkedIn posts for thought leadership because I was in what I speak about uh you know federal and state over uh scrutiny of healthcare consolidation, there's periods of time, and it's still even still today, where over the last few years it's been changing almost like daily or weekly on a weekly basis, and and you know, following bills across 50 states, um it just requires a lot of updates and a lot of things are you know, a lot of things happening. And so, you know, the traditional, I would say, law firm, you know, mentality for this type of stuff is you know, a website, but a website is static, right? And it's really hard to update it and it and drive traffic to it. Uh folks also like to do the written articles, right? And the sort of listserv. That requires uh, you know, A, once you write it, but like by the time we were writing articles with updates, they were already out of date by the time we went to publish, because just like anything else, right? You've got reviews and you know, put it through all the whole like you know, communication, you know, process. Uh, and I just it was I got to the point where like, all right, I'm, you know, something happens, I'm gonna post it on LinkedIn and give sort of my initial reaction and you've got it, right? And then if it changes the next day, like, so be it. Um, I'll do an update or uh and so it's provided this medium of allowing, you know, sort of real-time uh, you know, updates uh to the stakeholders and to the audience. Now, sometimes, right, if I feel you know, like a pot, you know, like we we need to go into more detail, right? Uh, and what almost like a written analysis, then we'll do an article. Or if there's some things where just like this, where to your point about tone and to be able to, you know, ex communicate and express yourself in in in more than just a written word, then we'll you know, move, you know, use it, do a podcast or some kind of audio. Um, but I just have found that to be for me very useful and I've had a lot of good feedback on it. Um, but I have to, but going sort of going to the next question of you know, what kind of made you or what got you past that line of like, you know, you weren't doing it and then now you're doing it sort of on a daily basis? Like, what was the hardest, yeah, that hardest first step for you uh to kind of kickstart this whole thing?

SPEAKER_01 19:44

Yeah, so I'll say on the front end, I was forced, um forced to find something. And when I say forced to find something, find a professional platform that wasn't hundreds of thousands of dollars to have full access um, you know, to clientele, or rather to physicians, dentists, and at the time clinical psychologist and some other specialties. Um and so probably January, February, March of last year, I didn't go all in, but I got as close to it as possible. Um and then you kind of start to do it every single day. You you climb over cringe mountain, you post it, and you're like, ooh, and you're like, it feels terrible, but then it feels better as you go. And I'll tell you right now, today, after however many thousands of posts over the last few years, it never goes away. So forever's listening, watching, you know, just get in there and start doing it. You'll find your voice. Um, because it never gets easier. You know, right now I'm a huge introvert for the folks that don't know. And so, like my chest, while I might not be showing, you know, not anxiety, but like nervousness, like I feel it on the inside. And so I'm human and I want to let everyone know, like, you know, it's totally natural to be nervous. That means you care, right? And that means you care what people see, how you're viewed, how you're valued, you know, how your company, right? Because it's not just you or it's not just me. I I represent the entire Navy right now because I'm in the Navy. And so I want to make sure I do a good job. And so I get it, there's so many pieces to it um that are so important that you have to really think about. But you know, our brain can only handle so much in real time because it's not scripted, right? This is just, you know, Mike and John having a great conversation. Um and so I'll say you gotta do it, which is so corny and cliche to say. Um, but it's just like anything in life. Like, when are you gonna go to the gym? You just gotta start and you gotta continue. And when you get past that seven-day point, you've built some muscle memory. Um, and then you get to 14 days, and then all of a sudden it's like I'm going to the gym this morning because that's part of life. You know, we didn't grow up brushing our teeth every morning. We kind of had to build a momentum for it, you know. Um, and so unless you were a writer or a journalist, or you just it came naturally to you, you're a marketer. You know, I I didn't I still am learning and growing into my voice. And I learned what works best for me, what works best for my personal content, what um works best for the Navy's content. But you just got to continue to do it. Um, and that doesn't mean every day or twice. A day, you know, that could be twice a week, once a week, three times a week, but you just gotta continue to do it, get started. Um, if it doesn't like I say divide the country, you know, sex, race, religion, politics, those types of things, unless that's your area of practice, um, which I don't think it really is for anybody. I would stay away from all of that. But besides that, you can't really do wrong, and you'll grow into uh your natural voice, you'll understand. And you know, uh there's a lot of professionals that don't have the time to sit there every single day or multiple times a week. So I'd say pick a day, whether that's Monday, Wednesday, Friday, Sunday, um, with coffee and use AI. You know, AI is just in such a bad light. But here's my thing like human input. So what I want to do, my topics, how I want to write, uh AI output. So, okay, cool, this is it much more formatted. Here's some things I didn't think about, or here's a good idea for what I want. And then human refinement. So there's like a three-tier to it where it's still you, it's still your voice, but you're getting the tools, right? To be able to modify it and and take ownership of your time back instead of letting it take control of you because it's the thing and everyone's on LinkedIn. And if you're not on LinkedIn, you're gonna get left behind and AI, this, and so don't be scared to use AI, just use it the right way. Don't let it control your voice. Like that's especially, like I said, it's the blue ocean right now. The bars never been lowered to be a human. And so, like, don't be shy to you know, be who you are and show a little bit of personality. Obviously, if you're in the C-suite or um, you know, if you're in the VP or if you're higher up within that realm, you kind of have to be a little bit more careful. But I think that's what would set you and your company apart um to show who you are as a person, as a father, as a husband, as a spouse, whatever the case is. Um, you know, whether you like to golf or whether you've got a dog, you post those little things and it'll connect with you. Or rather, it'll it'll connect with the people um at all levels within you know your company or your group or your hospital or whatever the case is. And I think it's so important to, you know, again, just in the day of AI, just be human. But uh to answer your question, John, I went a little bit of a tangent there because it's I'm so passionate and it's so important to like echo on certain things, um to just stay consistent with it, grow into your voice, find out what works for you, find out what doesn't. You know, after a couple hundred posts or even a dozen or so, you'll make corrections and you'll learn that, like, hey, I won't do that again. And so you kind of just learn as you go. So and I think some of the fear I think comes from exactly that, right?

SPEAKER_02 24:29

It's sort of the failure, the fear of failure, the fear of posting something and then getting that angry phone call from a partner or you know, your CEO or whatever, being like, What did you just do? And look, that I mean, that can happen, but I think to your point, if you stay within the bounds of you know, you know, certain parameters, I think the way I like to think about it, and I sort of this came from like public affairs training in the Coast Guard, was like, if you're posting something right, it may not feel like it's going out to the public if you're just on your phone, you're crunching away and you send it off. But like imagine if that your client was standing right, or your supervisor, you know, your the comment, you know, the president or whatever is standing right in front of you. Like, would you say that to their face, right? And if and if you feel and if you feel like maybe not, you feel a little squirrely about it, then you shouldn't post it, right? That's for number one. Number two, like I don't know about you, but um in just the public affairs world that I did previously, I would have like this network of you know other folks that were trained in this, and we all were constantly, you know, connected and watching each other's stuff just as another set of eyes. Everyone has a bad day sometimes, to your point, right? Like you don't get you don't, you know, you don't get that last sip of coffee or you might get a you know a little heated or something, and they are on it just as much as you are, and so they see something a little off, they immediately call you up and say, hey, uh you might want to just tweak that a little bit. Like that looks a little, you know, that might cross that line a little bit. And so I think as part as a part of this, it's like building that network of friendly parties to be able to help you kind of mitigate any issues that you might have. Um, that will help, I think, alleviate any sort of concern or issues you might have down the line. And frankly, it's just part of the of doing this, right? There's obviously there's the good side of it, and then there's you know, there's some of the bad side, you just have to mitigate the bad and and kind of deal with both. Um so tell me um what are some ways? Okay, so like let's say you're a new, you know, you're a lawyer and you're um, you know, or someone or you know, someone that's looking to um kind of get out there and do more of this. And all right, so now you're you've decided I'm gonna be posting on this day. This is sort of the you know, the content, the contact type of content that I want to post. Like, what are some ways that they can, you know, kind of boost their engagement um or you know, really, you know, kickstart uh their following?

SPEAKER_01 27:07

A great question. And there's so many different um, it's like a 10-pronged response. And so I'll try to like bounce back through it and circle it all back. So I guess number one is you have to have like, and I hate the word optimized, but you have to have an optimized profile because if you look like you're a scam or it's not completely filled out, or you don't have a picture or things of that nature, um, no one's really gonna. I mean, still people will engage, people will engage with anything these days, but you'll have less of engagement of how you'd like it to be. And of course, you're following well, people are not gonna follow, you know, half-naked profiles, if you will. So I would say really dial in. Um, if you can get a professional headshot. If not, you know, the phones nowadays are crazy, the techno uh the capability. Even, you know, on um uh what is this called? On our podcast with our cameras, you can get a nice, you know, top, put a blazer on, snap a picture, get it on there. But I would say also whether you want to have like a rotating banner, um, if you've got LinkedIn Premium, um, or if you just have a regular one on there, it could be for your practice or for your group, or it could be a personal picture, or it could just be like a slogan. Um, you just want to have it completely filled out. And then you want to work your way down from the top to the bottom of your profile, you know, your education, um, if there's a website that they can link to for your place of employment, um, just the whole thing. Because you could have the absolute best, like S-tier content, and you can articulate so well via content that it just draws attention. But what does that go back to? Like if it goes back to something that doesn't match, it just people get turned off or um, and so I would say start with your profile. After that, again, you want to make sure you're following people that would have interest within what you're putting out. And so if you post something and it's about insert topic here, and then you're following other folks that are within the same topic range, they're gonna again, they're gonna see your comment, they're gonna click on your profile. Once everyone does, hey, what's that guy or gal about? They check you out, they see most recent content, they check that out if it makes sense, they like it, or oh yeah, this is pretty cool too. And so that just like kind of compounds. And then over time, you're gonna build like, I don't want to say cheerleaders, but like, you know, I I learn so much from you every single day, and I'm like, you know, that's pretty cool. I didn't even know that kind of stuff existed, or I had no idea that stuff hit the floor every single day. Like, I don't know about that world. And so I do a quick like 30 second, maybe a couple minutes if I'm super interested, like it and move on. So when I like your stuff, what's the ripple effect? You drop a rock in the pond, and and so now people in my network are gonna get exposed to you and what you're putting out. And so there's so many different avenues, but I would say um, again, just followership, following people, making sure that your content is good. Um the pods were really killing content, like people would have paid pods to have like a growth hack and and grow fast, which is pretty much gone now. But I would say have like people um you know that are within your circle that you can kind of like bounce an idea off of, or hey, what do you think? Like if you read this, just to get it going at first. Um, and then you know, like organizations and associations and interact with them, tag them, tag people. Like, hey, you know, I was talking with John last week and just kind of bring people to the conversation. It's like going to a party, you know, if you're having a good conversation, more people want to be a part of it, or a group or a conference. And so, like, try to do the same thing on LinkedIn and you know, just bring people to it and just grow the community. You know, LinkedIn started off, it's like a community thing. Um, it was like a couple of years after Facebook, and so like, you know, the jobs and the different conferences and all the webinars on there, it was all built off of the back of the people. And so it's truly like a a people built. Um, you know, Ryan, the CEO, he's great. Um, you know, another uh use case. I was commenting on his stuff for a while for about 45, 60 days, and I still do. Um, and he just released his new book called Open to Work. And, you know, I'm always on there because him and his folks are just great and they have some really cool stuff. I sent them a DM and I was like, hey, what are the chances of you know, Michael? You loan from the Navy getting a signed copy from the CEO of LinkedIn. Literally within like a couple of minutes, he responded back to me, hey Michael, that sounds really cool. What's your address? And on the flip side, you know, I was like, hey, I would love to send you some Navy swag because the Navy has changed my life. I'm sorry, LinkedIn has changed my life personally and professionally because of, again, like I said, the rooms that it allowed uh that has allowed me to get into, as well as what it's done for the Navy for like a medical capability for both access to care and like operational um for like you know, our trauma surgery and our operational units. And so again, something as simple as interacting with someone, like if you want to call it a fanboy moment, that's fine. Um, I I love LinkedIn, but it's like, where else can you do that? You know, I'm not flying to San Francisco trying to get through a hundred people to get to him on the 50th floor, you know, whatever the case is. And so it's insane, you know, give, give, give, give, give, and then ask. But um, yeah, man, I love LinkedIn.

SPEAKER_02 32:13

Yeah, I mean, that's that's clear. And, you know, certainly I'm a fan as well. Um, I and given that it's been around for a while, I mean, there could be some hesitancy, right? And some anxiety of folks like, well, you know, there's already it's too saturated, there's too many people out there already, like, you know, it's too late to start, you know, et cetera, et cetera. Just like, you know, kind of all the excuses you hear of going to the gym, right? Um what do you say to those people, right? Like, you know, is there still gonna be LinkedIn in 2027? Like, you know, what what do you say to those people? Like, why, why inv why start now, right? If it's if if it's gonna have to be so much work.

SPEAKER_01 32:49

Yeah, so right now it's the fastest growing platform. Like me having over 10,000 followers, I'm at the 1%, is what LinkedIn shows based on um how many followers I have. I'm clearly not in the 1% of like how I am in real life because of you know, my earning power and all the things. Um, you know, so I'm not like in if we're comparing to like what the 1% of the corporate world is, I'm not there. But because I was early, which we still are, it's it's an incredible time to get in. Like it's you know, a lot of people think that it's it's crazy that you know it's perceived as you're behind and you should have started years ago. But the again, back to the the bar has never been lowered to get on the platform. Um, and LinkedIn is almost uh to a point, especially like in social selling within marketing and sales and just uh social trust for your your company or your firm. Um it's it's a need now instead of a want because you know, attention is gonna become so expensive. And this is the best place for the stakeholders and the people, you know, the line attorney or associate all the way up to you know the most senior partner, or there's there's no place where you can just get out there and again, one billion people, you're not gonna reach that many people, but the platform with one billion people that are not hiding behind an alias. Um you know, there's so many like if if we pulled up a system right now to show you know H and K and it was like, hey, these are all the partners. Um only five of your partners are active on social media. That means those are the only forward-facing people that know, um, or rather, that are putting out content to showcase and build social trust um and to bring more usership and to bring more clients and to bring more partnerships to H K. And so like there's there's um there's companies that uh are started right now that their sole purpose is to bring companies to LinkedIn um and show them, show their teams how to use it, you know, from the C-suite level all the way down to to sales and everything in between, again, to bring that social trust. You know, that's kind of like why I'm bringing the Navy to LinkedIn. It's a slogan. Um, you know, everyone's like CEO, founder, you know, this, that, and the other, all things that are cool um and and real. And and I I would argue that it helps with the searchable piece to your profile. Um, but that's not really drawing people's attention. I mean, if it matches your job description, it's known. But people are like, what does that mean? Bringing the Navy to LinkedIn. I get messages all the time, like, hey, what does that mean? Like, what exactly do you do? Great. I get a chance to have a conversation. Yeah. So yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 35:27

Well, and look, I know we've been focused on right thought leadership and projecting, you know, kind of giving you a channel for for doing um, you know, getting your message out there. I'll say that the other, I think, really critical thing for me. So, I mean, this is my third firm, you know, in in 12, 13 years. Um, and right, we're millennials. So, like back in the day, you know, when we entered the corporate world and you know, engaged with some of the older folks, like they would have a Rolodex of business cards. And that was like their, you know, and I remember like physically walking into offices and there would be like a binder of business cards and they would flip through it, right? And this is essentially that, right? Uh uh and you and when you if you do move right from firm to firm, or you know, if you go, if you leave the active duty, right, you'll lose access to your emails, right? And so all the contacts you've made, which happens, which has happened to me now, right, multiple times, they're gone, right? And so, unless you were physically writing down a piece of paper everyone's email, right, which I I did not, yeah, I actually had to turn to LinkedIn to just re-engage with all everyone that I've worked with for the last you know 10 years, right? Uh, and get their most recent contact information and emails and and all of that. And and it took a long time. You know, I first, when I kind of first started doing this uh more frequently, I first had to kind of rebuild that network in LinkedIn and then you know push forward with the thought create, you know, the content creation. Uh so for me it was critical uh with the various transitions.

SPEAKER_01 37:10

But yeah, yeah, LinkedIn's not going anywhere. So it's it's like a permanent virtual Rolodex. And plus, I'd argue you know, 90% of people um use it as a um job sourcing platform when they need a job, kind of like taking before they give or and so like you had mentioned, building that network and building relationships and friendships and partnerships and fellowship while not needing you know anything back gives you a lot of social credit so that you can use your virtual role decks, you know, um in a time of need or you know, in the time of curiosity, if there's better or different, or you know, you want to change um within career path or you want to slow down or you want to speed up. So absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 37:57

Yeah, I think that avenue for collaboration is critical. I mean, I I certainly I have all you know several law firms following my content, you know, liking my stuff. I've seen, you know, I post something on one day, and then two days later, magically there's an article written by another you know law firm that I I knew like the content. So I mean it's fine. Like some people get very you know territorial in this stuff, but for me, I you know uh I like that collaboration, especially in the you know, in the healthcare industry and the healthcare bar. And um, you know, I think if we put all of our minds together working collectively, like we will, you know, be able to push a lot of things forward. So um I, you know, I very much appreciate you know your collaboration helping me. Um, you know, for those that don't don't know, like it's it's also a thing out there in like the military for like a you know a chief to mentor like a junior officer because we're sort of you know new to the service and all this stuff. So there's a lot of different dynamics, you know, kind of going on here. Um, but I very much appreciate all that. And I think before we break, is there any other, you know, just takeaways or or best practices that you think uh folks would you know should should appreciate?

SPEAKER_01 39:05

Sheesh, there's so much stuff. Um you know, there's so many tidbits and golden nuggets and best practices. Um yeah, I don't know. I would just say, you know, have fun with it. Um have great conversations, try to be consistent, and consistent is subjective and relative to to you and what you can handle and and such. But you know, if you're feeling cringy, you know, we all do it. I feel it a little bit right now with some of the things I've said. Climb over cringe mountain um and have fun with it. You know, you'd be surprised with that next post or conversation, um, what kind of door that'll open and what kind of opportunity for you know for you or your company or for your life. And so yeah.

SPEAKER_02 39:46

I think the last thing is don't be afraid to be yourself. And it took me a long time to realize that. Yeah, that's huge. That's huge. Thanks, Mike.

SPEAKER_01 39:58

Yeah, thanks, John.

SPEAKER_00 40:04

If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe to AHLA's Speaking of Health Law wherever you get your podcasts. For more information about AHLA and the educational resources available to the health law community. Visit American Health Law.org and stay updated on breaking healthcare industry news from the major media outlets with AHLA's Health Law Daily Podcast, exclusively for AHLA comprehensive members. To subscribe and add this private podcast feed to your podcast app, go to americanhealthlaw.org slash daily podcast.